Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun

[Giuseppe]

Sorry but in this moment I'm in holiday at sea with only my smartphone. Next month I will give the reference to Peter of Verona.

[andrewcriddle]

Sorry but in this moment I'm in holiday at sea with only my smartphone. Next month I will give the reference to Peter of Verona.

Thanks, no hurry.

Andrew Criddle

[DCHindley]

Whatever it is you're smoking, Joe, save me some ...

[andrewcriddle]

I think I've found the reference to Peter of Verona Summa Book 1 chapter 8

sunt et alii inter eos qui estimant Christum non tantum, sed etiam pluries mortuum fuisse, adeo ut dicant quod in ex VII celis fuerit passus et occisus

Google translate slightly modified There are also, among those who consider that Christ was not only, but also to have been dead several times, to the point to say that in out of 7 heavens He has suffered and was killed

Andrew Criddle

(From Une Somme Contre Les Heretiques de S. Pierre Martyr (?) by T Kaepelli pps 295 - 335 of Archivum Fratrum Praed vol. XVII 1947 )

[neilgodfrey]

I think I've found the reference to Peter of Verona Summa Book 1 chapter 8

sunt et alii inter eos qui estimant Christum non tantum, sed etiam pluries mortuum fuisse, adeo ut dicant quod in ex VII celis fuerit passus et occisus

Google translate slightly modified There are also, among those who consider that Christ was not only, but also to have been dead several times, to the point to say that in out of 7 heavens He has suffered and was killed

Andrew Criddle

(From Une Somme Contre Les Heretiques de S. Pierre Martyr (?) by T Kaepelli pps 295 - 335 of Archivum Fratrum Praed vol. XVII 1947 )

Is there an online link to this reference?

Thanks,
Neil

[andrewcriddle]

I think I've found the reference to Peter of Verona Summa Book 1 chapter 8

sunt et alii inter eos qui estimant Christum non tantum, sed etiam pluries mortuum fuisse, adeo ut dicant quod in ex VII celis fuerit passus et occisus

Google translate slightly modified There are also, among those who consider that Christ was not only, but also to have been dead several times, to the point to say that in out of 7 heavens He has suffered and was killed

Andrew Criddle

(From Une Somme Contre Les Heretiques de S. Pierre Martyr (?) by T Kaepelli pps 295 - 335 of Archivum Fratrum Praed vol. XVII 1947 )

Is there an online link to this reference?

Thanks,
Neil

See
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=48G ... EQ6AEIIzAB
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fWK ... 22&f=false
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lX_ ... EQ6AEIKTAC

Andrew Criddle

[neilgodfrey]

Cool. Thanks.

[Giuseppe]

The Albanists would have said secretly: “That doesn't help me who said: 'My soul is sad until to death' (Matthew 26:38)”. He is the son of the evil god who quotes the Psam 42,5, when he was crucified in the other world.

(Jean Duvernoy, La religione dei Catari : fede, dottrina, riti, my translation and my bold)

The belief in two crucifixions is one of their more secret teachings. They don't preach it openly, for fear that the people is scandalized.

(from Liber supra stella, ed. in I. von Döllinger, Beiträge, op. cit. p.81)

It seems that the ''evil Christ'' was crucified in the world of the Good God, while the ''good Christ'' was crucified in the world of the Demiurge (this world). This seems to be a reflection of a radical dualistic/manichean view: the two gods send their Christs to be crucified one in the other's world and viceversa.