Parallels between Mark 6.14-29 and the Esther traditions.

[Secret Alias]

Like a casino, the rules of Biblical scholarship always favor the house.

[andrewcriddle]

The problem is that the death of Vashti is widespread and relatively early in Midrash and Targum. It is difficult to see this motif as based on the story of John the Baptist even if this is a prima-facie plausible idea.

On the other hand Vashti's head on a platter is genuinely late in the Midrashic tradition and not very widespread. I just can'y regard it as plausible that it was known to Mark.

Then how did the detail find its way from Mark into the Esther midrash? Why did the rabbis reverse engineer a Christian text with the direct result that its connections to Jewish history wind up even stronger than before?

One problem I have is that there seems to be another account of the death of Vashti, maybe an older one, in which she is put to death naked presumably involving some form of public exposure see Esther The idea would be that because she refused to appear naked at the banquet she will be put to death through some form of naked public exposure. This seems incompatible with her death by beheading.

Andrew Criddle

[Nathan]

...I think that the internal arguments are definitively in favor of the Jewish traditions claiming priority over the Marcan story of Herod's banquet. The catch, of course, is the external evidence, which is lacking for the Jewish traditions until much, much later than the text of Mark is attested. My thoughts on this dilemma are pretty simple: we possess only a fraction of what was written in antiquity...

Ben.

Thought the following might be of some interest to you, Ben.

In the Introduction to his translation of the two Esther Targums, Bernard Grossfeld mentions the work of 19th century German scholar Jacob Reiss, who, he says:

traces the Aggadic material in both Esther Targums to a larger Aggadic work, the Targum Rabbati, no longer extant...In addition to Targum Rabbati, Reiss points to the Midrash Rabbati...This work, according to him, once existed probably into the tenth and eleventh century C.E. and contained all the Aggadot on the Book of Esther. Reiss concludes...that all of our extant Esther Targums originally go back to the Targum Rabbati, which was in itself by and large an Aramaic translation of a larger Midrashic work in Hebrew known as the Midrash Rabbati, neither of which have survived in themselves.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

Parallels with Jewish Midrash.

4. The executioner/bodyguard.

The word for executioner/bodyguard in Mark 6.27 is σπεκουλάτωρ, a Latin loan word: speculator. Aus observes that this Greek word is found nowhere else in the New Testament, the LXX, Philo, or Josephus. It is quite rare. Interestingly, however, it also entered rabbinic Hebrew and Aramaic as a loanword. Aus writes, "In Panim Achérim 2 on Est 6:1 Mordecai sees Haman coming, 'and the סְפִקְלָטוֹר with him.'" Here the bodyguard of the king is called by the same term as in Mark 6:27. ... The second targum on Est 5:2 relates that 'when the king saw Queen Esther standing in the court, she found favor and grace in his sight. But the royal executioners (אִסְפַּקְלְטוֹרֵי) who stood there were ready to kill, to kill Esther.'" Again, the same Latin loan word is used of these men.

A similar observation applies to the speculator of Mark 6.27: this word is rare in the Greek of the time, yet it appears as a loanword in connection with Ahasuerus' personal bodyguard in the Esther materials; this makes more sense in one direction than in the other.

A very fascinating point. If I am not wrong then speculatore is a Latin loanword and had three principle meanings

- spy, special agent (often used by Caesar in bello gallico)
- courier, scout
- imperial guard, bodyguard

I think that the speculatore in Mark 6:27 fits Mark’s theme that the Romans are the executioners, the verb ἀγγαρεύουσιν (angareuousin) in Mark 15:21 and the story of Judith, if Judith was Mark’s source of the beheading and not the Esther-traditions (because Judith acted as a spy).

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

The problem is that the death of Vashti is widespread and relatively early in Midrash and Targum. It is difficult to see this motif as based on the story of John the Baptist even if this is a prima-facie plausible idea.

On the other hand Vashti's head on a platter is genuinely late in the Midrashic tradition and not very widespread. I just can'y regard it as plausible that it was known to Mark.

Vashti's head on a platter simultaneously pumps up the danger ...

Thanks.

My impression was always that the book of Esther was not only a religious text, but also a very popular story and some kind of an ancient Jewish bestseller with further reworking of the plot and inventions of new details (a bit like the Jesus-stories). The idea that the death of Vashti was first added (“pumps up the danger”) and later the head on the platter as a morbild and fascinating detail seems to me very likely.

[Ben C. Smith]

...I think that the internal arguments are definitively in favor of the Jewish traditions claiming priority over the Marcan story of Herod's banquet. The catch, of course, is the external evidence, which is lacking for the Jewish traditions until much, much later than the text of Mark is attested. My thoughts on this dilemma are pretty simple: we possess only a fraction of what was written in antiquity...

Ben.

Thought the following might be of some interest to you, Ben.

In the Introduction to his translation of the two Esther Targums, Bernard Grossfeld mentions the work of 19th century German scholar Jacob Reiss, who, he says:

traces the Aggadic material in both Esther Targums to a larger Aggadic work, the Targum Rabbati, no longer extant...In addition to Targum Rabbati, Reiss points to the Midrash Rabbati...This work, according to him, once existed probably into the tenth and eleventh century C.E. and contained all the Aggadot on the Book of Esther. Reiss concludes...that all of our extant Esther Targums originally go back to the Targum Rabbati, which was in itself by and large an Aramaic translation of a larger Midrashic work in Hebrew known as the Midrash Rabbati, neither of which have survived in themselves.

Thank you very much for this. Very interesting. I am planning to get my hands on Grossfeld's translation of the two Esther Targums soon.

[Ben C. Smith]

My impression was always that the book of Esther was not only a religious text, but also a very popular story and some kind of an ancient Jewish bestseller with further reworking of the plot and inventions of new details (a bit like the Jesus-stories).

That is my impression, as well.

[Ben C. Smith]

The problem is that the death of Vashti is widespread and relatively early in Midrash and Targum. It is difficult to see this motif as based on the story of John the Baptist even if this is a prima-facie plausible idea.

On the other hand Vashti's head on a platter is genuinely late in the Midrashic tradition and not very widespread. I just can'y regard it as plausible that it was known to Mark.

Then how did the detail find its way from Mark into the Esther midrash? Why did the rabbis reverse engineer a Christian text with the direct result that its connections to Jewish history wind up even stronger than before?

One problem I have is that there seems to be another account of the death of Vashti, maybe an older one, in which she is put to death naked presumably involving some form of public exposure see Esther The idea would be that because she refused to appear naked at the banquet she will be put to death through some form of naked public exposure. This seems incompatible with her death by beheading.

Well, certainly. But how does a variant tradition about the death affect the plausibility of a connection between the tradition we are speaking of and the story found in Mark? How is it a problem?

[andrewcriddle]

Then how did the detail find its way from Mark into the Esther midrash? Why did the rabbis reverse engineer a Christian text with the direct result that its connections to Jewish history wind up even stronger than before?

One problem I have is that there seems to be another account of the death of Vashti, maybe an older one, in which she is put to death naked presumably involving some form of public exposure see Esther The idea would be that because she refused to appear naked at the banquet she will be put to death through some form of naked public exposure. This seems incompatible with her death by beheading.

Well, certainly. But how does a variant tradition about the death affect the plausibility of a connection between the tradition we are speaking of and the story found in Mark? How is it a problem?

If both versions are equally ancient variants then there isn't really a problem. If the beheading is a later development, then it is IMO likely that it did not arise till after Mark was written.

I may be wrong but IIUC the beheading of Vashti is not attested till the post-Talmudic period. (others of the late parallels in the OP seem to be attested earlier than is true for the beheading). If one accepts that it is both a later development of the original Midrash and a very late attested variant then (again IMO) it is prima-facie unlikely to be as old as Mark.

Andrew Criddle

[iskander]

Esther