Bread and fish.

[Charles Wilson]

Josephus, War..., 6, 4, 3:

"But then, on the next day, Titus commanded part of his army to quench the fire, and to make a road for the more easy marching up of the legions, while he himself gathered the commanders together. Of those there were assembled the six principal persons: Tiberius Alexander, the commander [under the general] of the whole army; with Sextus Cerealis, the commander of the fifth legion; and Larcius Lepidus, the commander of the tenth legion; and Titus Frigius, the commander of the fifteenth legion: there was also with them Eternius [Fronto], the leader of the two legions that came from Alexandria; and Marcus Antonius Julianus, procurator of Judea: after these came together all the rest of the procurators and tribunes. Titus proposed to these that they should give him their advice what should be done about the holy house. Now some of these thought it would be the best way to act according to the rules of war, [and demolish it,] because the Jews would never leave off rebelling while that house was standing; at which house it was that they used to get all together. Others of them were of opinion, that in case the Jews would leave it, and none of them would lay their arms up in it, he might save it; but that in case they got upon it, and fought any more, he might burn it; because it must then be looked upon not as a holy house, but as a citadel; and that the impiety of burning it would then belong to those that forced this to be done, and not to them. But Titus said, that "although the Jews should get upon that holy house, and fight us thence, yet ought we not to revenge ourselves on things that are inanimate, instead of the men themselves;" and that he was not in any case for burning down so vast a work as that was, because this would be a mischief to the Romans themselves, as it would be an ornament to their government while it continued. So Fronto, and Alexander, and Cerealis grew bold upon that declaration, and agreed to the opinion of Titus. Then was this assembly dissolved, when Titus had given orders to the commanders that the rest of their forces should lie still; but that they should make use of such as were most courageous in this attack. So he commanded that the chosen men that were taken out of the cohorts should make their way through the ruins, and quench the fire.

Set(Seven) = {Tiberius Alexander, Sextus Cerialis, Larcius Lepidus, Titus Frigius, Eternius, Marcus Antonius Julianus, Titus Flāvius Caesar Vespasiānus Augustus}

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

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I think that no one can answer these questions convincingly. But in Mark 2:25-26 could be a little help for the numbers of the breads.

Mark 2:25f David	Mark 6:41 Feeding of the 5000	Mark 8:6 Feeding of the 4000	Mark 14:22 Lord’s Supper
Have you never read what David did ... how he entered the house of God ... and ate the bread of the Presence ... and also gave it to those who were with him?	And taking the five loaves... broke the loaves and gave them to the disciples to set before the people	And he took the seven loaves ... he broke them and gave them to his disciples to set before the people	And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them

There may be 5 breads at the Jewish feeding of the 5000, because 5 is a good Jewish number, but also because of LXX- 1 Kings (1 Sam) 21:3-4.

And David said to the priest ... And now if there are under thy hand five loaves, give into my hand what is ready.

The 7 breads at the feeding of the Gentiles could complete the 12 breads of the presence.

[Ben C. Smith]

.
I think that no one can answer these questions convincingly. But in Mark 2:25-26 could be a little help for the numbers of the breads.

Mark 2:25f David	Mark 6:41 Feeding of the 5000	Mark 8:6 Feeding of the 4000	Mark 14:22 Lord’s Supper
Have you never read what David did ... how he entered the house of God ... and ate the bread of the Presence ... and also gave it to those who were with him?	And taking the five loaves... broke the loaves and gave them to the disciples to set before the people	And he took the seven loaves ... he broke them and gave them to his disciples to set before the people	And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them

There may be 5 breads at the Jewish feeding of the 5000, because 5 is a good Jewish number, but also because of LXX- 1 Kings (1 Sam) 21:3-4.

And David said to the priest ... And now if there are under thy hand five loaves, give into my hand what is ready.

The 7 breads at the feeding of the Gentiles could complete the 12 breads of the presence.

That is a pretty stunning suggestion, Kunigunde.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

That is a pretty stunning suggestion, Kunigunde.

Thanks

btw I find it interesting that the Didache placed David on the side of the wine, but Mark placed him on the side of the bread. Both seems to be a bit "surprising"

[Charles Wilson]

I need to place a Point made into another context:

Mark 6: 39 (RSV):

[39] Then he commanded them all to sit down by companies upon the green grass

A simpler understanding would find that "green grass" might be found in the Spring which might place this event at Passover.
The desert like conditions found in the Story of the Feeding of the 4000 would imply late Summer, early Fall - an event where, in other passages, Palm Fronds are waved.

CW