Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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GakuseiDon
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by GakuseiDon »

The debate has just finished. It is currently available for free here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnmJ_dg46d4

Not sure how long it will be available for. I'm going through it now, watching Dr Price's first 30 mins presentation, after Dr Ehrman's.
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by Diogenes the Cynic »

GakuseiDon wrote:The debate has just finished. It is currently available for free here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnmJ_dg46d4

Not sure how long it will be available for. I'm going through it now, watching Dr Price's first 30 mins presentation, after Dr Ehrman's.
Thanks for the link. I'm watching it now. I really am impartial and fundamentally undecided on this (though I tennatively, for now, identify as a minimal historicist) so I'll see if this knocks me off the fence at all.
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by GakuseiDon »

2 hrs 40 mins in -- Ehrman asks a key question: What early texts/beliefs makes a crucifixion of a Jesus in outer space probable?
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by GakuseiDon »

2 hrs 57 mins in -- Q&A session: To Ehrman: "What would it take for you to take the mythicist theory seriously?"
Last edited by GakuseiDon on Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by GakuseiDon »

3 hrs 6 mins in -- Q&A session: To Ehrman: "Do you use the Bayesian Principle for historical research?"
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by GakuseiDon »

3 hrs 23 mins in -- Price: Paul didn't write Galatians. There are hints that Paul may have grown up a Christian, rather than converted to Christianity.
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by GakuseiDon »

3 hrs 37 mins in -- Q&A session: To Ehrman: "Aren't the Gospels all hearsay?"
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by GakuseiDon »

3 hrs 46 mins in -- Last question in Q&A session: Price: I think Paul didn't write any of the letters attributed to him in the NT.
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by spin »

Just had a little listen to some of Ehrman's 30 minutes and so far it is fluent blather. Attested Jews argument is nonsense: he might like to look at a few coins, say for Herod Agrippa I. Yeah, I know, he's a text scholar, so he only uses texts. He's certainly no historian. Multiple independent sources? You know, the gospels! At least he knows that the Aramaic traces go back to Jesus. I wish I knew how he knows. He's now struggling through Paul and rehashing his theories about Gal 1:19, Cephas and James. He used to have problems with the "Cephas = Peter" equation, but not today. And he's rehearsing "the brother of the Lord" = Jesus eisegesis. He's not prepared to follow through on the significance of "brother" and won't analyze "the lord = Jesus" equation he assumes. It seems there is nothing new or perceptive on offer here. Too bored to continue.
Last edited by spin on Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Price/Ehrman - Did Jesus Exist? Debate - Oct. 21, 2016

Post by maryhelena »

GakuseiDon wrote:The debate has just finished. It is currently available for free here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnmJ_dg46d4

Not sure how long it will be available for. I'm going through it now, watching Dr Price's first 30 mins presentation, after Dr Ehrman's.
Thanks GDon for the link. In case the video is removed - I downloaded it. Just finished Ehrman's opening address....

I thought it was a pretty straightforward presentation of the historicists case. Ehrman's main defense of JC historicity was the writings of Paul. Ehrman relies on the plain reading of the relevant texts. Mythicists attempt alternative readings. Alternative readings that suggest a case for non-historicity can be made. However, once alternative readings are possible, i.e. alternative to the plain reading, then those who propose such alternative readings are on the back foot, so to speak. Once alternative readings of a text become acceptable - then it's an open door for speculation. That means than that there is no sure footing for any of the alternative readings - they are all simply alternative interpretations...Allowing, of course, for the plain reading of the text to trump the speculative interpretations...

Arguing over what Paul meant when he wrote so and so - is pointless. I can't see the mythicists winning the JC debate by relying on the writings of Paul. Paul, as I have sometimes said, is the last hurdle to cross in the JC debate. There is no point arguing over his words when his historicity cannot be established. That is where mythicists have to go - Brodie has done the spadework - what mythicist has enough fire in the belly to take Paul down..... :)
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