IS THE PROTO-LUKE HYPOTHESIS SOUND?

[spin]

When you've finished this hogwash about speculatores we might get back to something a little more relevant.

Because it starts to become fun I will make a last exception, spin. I will make it with colours and tables so that also you have a chance to understand the problem.

The data show that in the 1st century BC and probably in the first half of the 1st century AD there is the following situation.

X	term	sources
specific Roman military rank	speculator	Caesar, Titus Livius
meaning of the word/ generic term	spy, scout	Cicero Ver. 2.5.164, Ovid, Amores 1.9, Vergil, Aeneid 12.346, Pliny the Elder Nat. 11.8, Sextus Propertius, Elegies 2.29b, Valerius Maximus, Facta et Dicta Memorabilia. 3.7
function and tasks of this soldier	spy, scout	Caesar, Titus Livius

The data show that probably in the middle of the 1st century AD things changed and it could be now this situation.

X	term	sources
specific Roman military rank	speculator	Seneca, Tacitus, Suetonius and further sources
function and tasks of this soldier	guardsman, executioner, scout, spy	Seneca, Tacitus, Suetonius and further sources

Now that's it. You've almost got there.

But the data show not that we would have this situation.

X	term	sources
specific Roman military rank	speculator
meaning of the word/ generic term	guardsman, executioner	????
function and tasks of this soldier	guardsman, executioner, scout, spy

The two possible rough translations of Mark 6:27 are therefore

καὶ εὐθὺς ἀποστείλας ὁ βασιλεὺς σπεκουλάτορα
And immediately having sent the king a scout/spy (speculator = meaning of the word/ generic term)
And immediately having sent the king a Roman military guardsman, executioner (speculator = specific Roman military rank with new functions)

But from the data it is not possible to translate

And immediately having sent the king an executioner/guardsman

A non-Roman living in Rome certainly could use the term to describe someone who is an elite military functionary to the potentate, given what would have been visible on the ground. Call him a "soldier" or a "guard" or a "lackey" or a "henchman" and let him do the bidding of Herod Antipas as the narrative dictates: "bring me his head!"

Feel free to make one last one last, if you need to, but you're just asserting what is "not possible". That comes from you, not the text, so I'd say thanks for all the fish.

[Secret Alias]

Just for fun. A lot of Imperial terminology was passed on to other languages including Aramaic ... including this word.


ˀspwqlṭr (ˀespuqlāṭar, ˀespuqlāṭarā) n.m. lictor, executioner
PTA, LJLA אספקלטור ‏; PTA var. ספקלטר ‏; CPA ܐܣܦܩܘܠܛܘܪ ‏


1 lictor, executioner PTA, CPA, Syr, LJLA. TN Gen40:4 : רב אספקלטוריה/ספקלטריה ‏ . LSt.54:11 ; . SyrAhiq 4 357:11 ; . P Mk6:27 : ܐܸܣܦܿܘܼܩܠܲܛܪܵܐ‏ .
Greek σπεκουλάτωρ. See also s.v. rb spwqlṭryn.
See LS: σπεκουλάτωρ , ορος, o(,= Lat. A. speculator, prop. scout: but in the Roman Imperial army, 1. one of the principales or head-quarters' staff of a legionary commander or provincial governor (whose duties included the carrying out of executions), Ev.Marc.6.27, POxy.1193.1 (iv A.D.), etc.

Page refs. in other dictionaries: LS2: 75[36]; DJPA: 68a; Jastrow http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/showjastrow.php?page=56: 56; Payne-Smith: ~288; J. Payne-Smith: 24; Levy Ch-W: 1:49; DCPA[Schulthess]: [15]; BarBahlul: 235:3;

Just for argument's sake - why does this have to be an example of Latinized-Greek? Why couldn't the Greek author have rendered Latinized-Aramaic terminology into Greek?

[Ben C. Smith]

Just for fun. A lot of Imperial terminology was passed on to other languages including Aramaic ... including this word.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2522&p=56554#p56554:

The word for executioner/bodyguard in Mark 6.27 is σπεκουλάτωρ, a Latin loan word: speculator. Aus observes that this Greek word is found nowhere else in the New Testament, the LXX, Philo, or Josephus. It is quite rare. Interestingly, however, it also entered rabbinic Hebrew and Aramaic as a loanword. Aus writes, "In Panim Achérim 2 on Est 6:1 Mordecai sees Haman coming, 'and the סְפִקְלָטוֹר with him.' Here the bodyguard of the king is called by the same term as in Mark 6:27. ... The second targum on Est 5:2 relates that 'when the king saw Queen Esther standing in the court, she found favor and grace in his sight. But the royal executioners (אִסְפַּקְלְטוֹרֵי) who stood there were ready to kill, to kill Esther.'" Again, the same Latin loan word is used of these men.

[Secret Alias]

Bravo.

[Secret Alias]

census κῆνσος is also found in Aramaic and Syriac


qns, qnsˀ (qnās, qnāsā) n.m. fine


1 penalty Gal, JBA. PTYev14.b:44[2] : כאילין קנסייא ‏ :[PTYev14.b:44[2]]: k)ylyN qnsyy) : subject to those penalties. BT Yev 86b(21) : קנסא עד שלא עלו בימי עזרא ‏ it was a penalty because they did not immigrate to Eretz Israel in the time of Ezra.

2 fine Nabatean, Gal, PTA, JBA, Man, LJLA. NabTomb 16:9 : wlʾpklʾ qns slʿyn ʾlp a fine of 1,000 sela for the apkal. TN Ex21:30 : קנס דממון ‏ a monetary penalty. BT Ket 40b(20) : ממונא מקנסא לא ילפינן ‏ we do not learn (via a גזירה שוה) from (a matter involving a) fine to (one involving) monetary penalty.
From Latin census. See also s.v. qynswn.

Page refs. in other dictionaries: DJPA: 497b; DJBA: 1030a; Jastrow: http://cal.huc.edu/showjastrow.php?page=1393; Drower/Macuch: 414a, 408b; Levy Ch-W: 2:373; DNWSI: 1018;

qynswn n.m. census: poll tax
CPA also ܩܝܣܘܢ ‏


1 census: poll tax CPA, Syr. LSt.159:9 : ܡܢ ܪ̈ܫܢܐ ܬܒܿܥ ܩܝܢܣܘܢ ܐܦ ܡܕܐܬܐ‏ he demands poll-tax and tribute from nobles.
Latin census through Greek.See also s.v. qns.

[Secret Alias]

denarius (δηνάριον, a Roman coin, Mark 12:15)

dynr, dynrˀ (dē/īnār, dē/īnārā) n.m. denarius


1 denarius Com-OA-OfA-BA. VR 18:590(6) : פנון ליה מרצופיה ומלון ליה דינרין ‏ they emptied his sack and filled it with dinars. PTBM10.b:21[2] : סב ב׳ דינרין אגרך ‏ take two dinars as your wage. P Mk12:15 ; . BT Yom 18a(22) : תרקבא דדינרי עיילא ליה מרתא בת ביתוס לינאי מלכא עד דמנייה ליהושע בן גמלא בכהני רברבי ‏ .

2 pl.: coinage, money Jud, Gal. PTBM9.c:27[2] : אוזפת לרב דינרין ‏ she lent Rab money. PTBM9.c:57[2] : חד בר נש יהב דינרין ‏ a certain person invested money in silk.

3 metaph. : egg-yolk Syr.
Latin and Greek δηνάριον ( Lehnw ( Lehnw 207).

Page refs. in other dictionaries: LS2: 297[160]; DJPA: 147b; DJBA: 334a; Jastrow: http://cal.huc.edu/showjastrow.php?page=302; Drower/Macuch: 108b; Payne-Smith: ~876; J. Payne-Smith: 91; Levy Ch-W: 1:171; DNWSI: 256; BarBahlul: 423:25; DJA: 41a;

[Secret Alias]

legio (λεγιών, “legion,” Mark 5:9, 15)

lgywn, lgywnˀ (leḡyōn, leḡyōnā) n.f. legion
pl. Palm: lgynyˀ; Syr: ܠܓܝ̈ܢܐܣ ‏


1 legion Palmyrene, JLAtg, Gal, PTA, CPA, Syr, LJLA. PAT278:1.4 : ʾty lkʾ yt lgynyʾ zbnyn sgyʾn he brought the legions here many times. P Nm24:24 : ܘܠܓܝܘ̈ܢܐ ܢܦܩ̈ܢ‏ . (a) battle line, order Syr. (b) legionnaire Gal. VR 702:3(1) : עבר עילויה חד ליגיון למיגבי דימוסיא ‏ a soldier passed by (on his way) to collect the taxes. (b.1) the name of a demon Syr. P Mk5:9 : ܘܫܲܐܠܸܗ܂ ܐܲܝܟܿܲܢܵܐ ܫܡܵܟܼ܂ ܐܵܡܲܪ ܠܸܗ ܠܸܓܼܝܘܼܢ ܫܡܲܢ‏ . JDalBeulay 124:14 : ܕܠܐ ܬܫܪܐ ܠܓܝܘܢ ܒܓܘ ܒܝܬܟ‏ .

2 fig.: crowd Syr.


Page refs. in other dictionaries: LS2: 673[358]; DJPA: 281b; Jastrow: http://cal.huc.edu/showjastrow.php?page=692; Payne-Smith: ~1890; J. Payne-Smith: 235; Levy Ch-W: 1:402; DNWSI: 566; Audo: 2:11; DCPA[Schulthess]: 199[101];

[Secret Alias]

modius (μόδιος, “peck measure,” Mark 4:21)


mwdy, mwdyˀ (mōḏī, mōḏyā) n.f. measure, modius
OfA mdy (to be read mry instead?); pl: ܡ̈ܕܼܝܢ ‏,ܡ̈ܕܲܘܵܬܵܐ‏; Palm. mdy


1 a dry measure OfAEg, OfAEast, Palmyrene, Gal, CPA, Syr, JBA, JBAg. EstR[1] 5.1(27) : חד מודין דדינרין ‏ one measure of dinars. OS MtCur5:15 : ܘܠܐ ܐܢܫ ܡܢܗܪ ܫܪܓܐ ܘܣܐܡ ܠܗ ܬܚܝܬ ܡܘܕܝܐ‏ .
Latin modius, approx. 1 peck.

Page refs. in other dictionaries: LS2: 721[375]; DJPA: 294b; DJBA: 645a; Jastrow: http://cal.huc.edu/showjastrow.php?page=738; Payne-Smith: ~2029; J. Payne-Smith: 256; DNWSI: 596; Audo: 2:37; DCPA[Schulthess]: 211[107];

View a complete KWIC

[Secret Alias]

praetorium (πραιτώριον, “governor’s official residence,” 15:16)

The word seems to have been butchered in later Aramaic to

plṭwryn, plṭrwtˀ n.m. palace, pretorium
CPA ܧܠܝܛܘܪܝܢ ‏


1 palace, pretorium PTA, CPA, Syr, LJLA. GT D1.43:18 : וּדחֵלו [גובר]יּא ארום אֶתָּעַלוּ לַפְלָטוֹרִין דיוסף ‏ the men were afraid because they were brought to Joseph's palace. TN Gen12:15 : ואד{כ}<ב>רת אתתה לפלטירין/לפלטין/ דפרע׳ ‏ .


Page refs. in other dictionaries: LS2: 1199[574]; DJPA: 435b; Jastrow: 1180; Payne-Smith: ~3130; Levy Ch-W: 2:269; DCPA[Schulthess]: 332[];

View a complete KWIC

[Secret Alias]

quadrans (κοδράντης, a Roman coin, 12:42)

qwdrnṭys n.m. quadrans (coin)
CPA both ܩܘܕܪܢܛܝܣ ‏ and ܩܘܕܪܢܛܘܣ ‏.


1 quadrans (coin) CPA, Syr.
Greek .

Page refs. in other dictionaries: LS2: 1325[649]; Payne-Smith: ~3509; DCPA[Schulthess]: 364[175];

View a complete KWIC

The term is different in Cureton's gospel text:

šmwn, šmwnˀ (*šāmōn, šāmōnā) n.m. quadrans; penny


1 quadrans (the smallest Roman coin, i.e., penny) Syr. OS MtCur5:26 : ܥܕܡܐ ܕܬܬܠ ܫܡܘܢܐ ܐܚܪܝܐ‏ until you have given the last penny. OS MkSin12:42 : ܘܐܬܬ ܐܪܡܠܬܐ ܚܕܐ ܡܣܟܢܬܐ ܐܪܡܝܬ ܬܪ̈ܝܢ ܫܡܘܢܝܢ ܕܐܝܬܝܗܘܢ ܪܘܒܥܐ‏ a certain poor widow threw in two quadrans, that is to say 'quarter'. P Mt5:26 : ܥܕܼܲܡܵܐ ܕܿܬܼܸܬܸܿܠ ܫܵܡܘܼܢܵܐ ܐ̱ܚܪܵܝܵܐ‏ until you pay the last farthing.
Greek .See discussion J.Psm s.v.

Page refs. in other dictionaries: LS2: 1571[786]; Payne-Smith: ~4199; J. Payne-Smith: 583b;