Did Jesus Exist? Price-Ehrman Debate: Full Audio

[Marginal_Jew]

They took much time in covering the basics and esp poor performance by Price who looks to me was not much involved or prepared for this debate, he answered some questions very carelessly and he didn't even quiz Ehrman in Cross-questioning round and wasted too much time in giving pop culture references.

And Ehrman too sometime run a string of misleading statements like, he said that we don't have any narratives on life of Josephus, forgetting he had written a autobiography(Life of Flavius Josephus or Life) and then he said that we don't have extra-biblical information about Pilate in first century and don't know why he even quite foolishly compared Pauline epistles to Letters from his own mother.

Overall a disappointing debate. Listen Here (~2hr-60MB.) ---->ge.tt/8P9cClf2

But one thing, the arguments put forward by Ehrman does straighten my Mythicism viewpoint. I mean his main argument was that the two events(Baptism, Crucifixion) in HJ's life are Historical and we have more then enough evidence for it. I mean what Extra-biblical evidence we have that the HJ was baptized by JtB?, no source make such a connection. Josephus mentioned him but he make no connection of JtB with Jesus or Christianity nor does any sparse alleged references of Jesus we find in Talmud give impression that Jesus was a 'student/follower' of JtB.

And Ehrman believes in that 'Apocalyptic Preacher' archetype then how such a stoic ascetic inerrant preacher with no apocalyptic doctrine become a mentor of Jesus? heck Paul not even once mentioned the Baptist's name, he's not mentioned in that alleged 'Q' document. And last there's a high chance that JtB was slain after the Crucifixion of Historical Jesus(If he existed), if we go by Josephus' Chronology.

Note - The file-sharing site has a daily traffic limit, so here's the torrent file, Copy it in your torrent client.

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[Peter Kirby]

Nice contribution, Marginal_Jew. Hope you stay a while! (Should be able to add real links after a couple more posts...)

Debate audio:
http://ge.tt/8P9cClf2

[Marginal_Jew]

Oh thanks, yeah i will be here for a while.

[GakuseiDon]

Marginal_Jew, the video of the debate can be found on Youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnmJ_dg46d4

Currently the video goes for 8 hours. But the first 5 hours is other material. The debate starts around the 5 hour mark.

[maryhelena]

They took much time in covering the basics and esp poor performance by Price who looks to me was not much involved or prepared for this debate, he answered some questions very carelessly and he didn't even quiz Ehrman in Cross-questioning round and wasted too much time in giving pop culture references.

And Ehrman too sometime run a string of misleading statements like, he said that we don't have any narratives on life of Josephus, forgetting he had written a autobiography(Life of Flavius Josephus or Life) and then he said that we don't have extra-biblical information about Pilate in first century and don't know why he even quite foolishly compared Pauline epistles to Letters from his own mother.

Overall a disappointing debate. Listen Here (~2hr-60MB.) ---->ge.tt/8P9cClf2

Yes, the 'debate' probably left many mythicists disappointed. However, to have expected Ehrman to debate/argue against the mythicist position was a futile hope. i.e. to seriously, publicly, engage in that debate, was not what Ehrman was ever going to do. Ehrman took the opportunity offered to him - a debate with Price - to set out his own view on the historicist position. And on that score, he presented his argument well. Price, to my mind, did not present an alternative position able to challenge Ehrman's historicist position. In other words, the ahistoricist/mythicist position, promoted in the debate by Price, was unable to achieve a knock-out blow to Ehrman's historicist position. That, unfortunately, is the state of play in the did Jesus exist debate.

Yes, one can knock Price for being a bit fuzzy in his presentation - but that simply fails to acknowledge the weakness, up against the historicist position, of the Price/Carrier/Doherty mythicist theory. Bottom-line is that the mythicist alternative position to historicism, a position that asserts what is basically a theological position - ie. a spiritual explanation) cannot challenge a position that claims a historical component. An historical assertion requires a historical counter-argument. Offering fuzzy spiritual/theological arguments cannot trump an historical argument. They are chalk and cheese. Two very different concepts. The Ehrman type historicists and the Price/Carrier/Doherty mythicists are playing in two very different ball parks. In other words, they are talking past one another.....the recent 'debate' being a clear demonstration.....There can be no debate/engagement until the mythicists stop firing blank bullets against the historicists and endeavor to build an historical alternative to the Ehrman type historicists.

[iskander]

A historical alternative should explain . The alternatives on sale now are shoddy inventions and damned boring to boot.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

There can be no debate/engagement until the mythicists stop firing blank bullets against the historicists and endeavor to build an historical alternative to the Ehrman type historicists.

A historical alternative should explain . The alternatives on sale now are shoddy inventions and damned boring to boot.

If it is possible to agree with both of you, then I agree The mythies should be a bit more self critical

[neilgodfrey]

Notes on Bart Ehrman's polemical, condescending and dogmatic presentation that avoids engagement with mythicist arguments and repeats some of the more vacuous nonsense of Did Jesus Exist?: The Ehrman-Price Debate: Ehrman’s Opening Address

Notes on Bob Price's well prepared presentation grounded in a close reading of the scholarship and that engages with the arguments in Did Jesus Exist? with a scholarly respect, humility and good humour: Ehrman-Price Debate #2: Price’s Opening Address

(Which debater do you think I think actually earned the money paid for his appearance?)

[spin]

Notes on Bart Ehrman's polemical, condescending and dogmatic presentation that avoids engagement with mythicist arguments and repeats some of the more vacuous nonsense of Did Jesus Exist?

Given his attitude, I really don't know why he didn't just pay a student to get up and read assorted passages from the book.

[neilgodfrey]

Notes on Bart Ehrman's polemical, condescending and dogmatic presentation that avoids engagement with mythicist arguments and repeats some of the more vacuous nonsense of Did Jesus Exist?

Given his attitude, I really don't know why he didn't just pay a student to get up and read assorted passages from the book.

No, no. Remember what he said when accused of just letting his research students do the work for that book. He definitely insisted on his professional honour as a scholar and a gentleman that he himself with his own eyes really really did read the books he discussed. We would expect nothing less in a public presentation.