iskander wrote:The Anointed King as a future saviour.
Yes, christians have run their own way with the term "christ". I was noting that it had already gained cultic content before it came into christian hands.
What was a synagogue in first century BC ? A gathering of people in a house for the purpose of worship.
This misses the issue of the topic. You are merely rehearsing cultic manings.
iskander wrote:Christians will eventually replicate this arrangement under the name ecclesia.
More rehearsal.
iskander wrote:
the sacred meal, apparently derived from the fact that during the last supper Jesus gave thanks over the bread and the cup.
Why do humans eat?
Deuteronomy Ekev
8:3
This is relevant to the notion of cultic vocabulary evolving how?
Sorry, it seems to me that you have missed the topic. I indicated an interest in how cultic terms evolved from non-cultic to specific technical terms. This evolution may have chronological use in understanding the significance of the texts we are dealing with. An example I've often presented here is κυριος, which indicated a power relationship, when it was taken by diaspora Jews to translate YHWH. This functionally gave κυριος a new meaning when used as a name substitute. It indicated the Jewish god. When Paul used it, he did so in one of those two ways, with the exception of 1 Cor 6:14 (a contextually disruptive verse) and 1 Cor 23-27, where the word is used as it would in later orthodoxy. That intrusive meaning for κυριος in those verses suggests in itself that the text has been worked on after it was written.
iskander wrote:He made life difficult for you, letting you go hungry, and then He fed you the Manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had ever experienced. This was to teach you that it is not by bread alone that man lives, but by all that comes out of God's mouth. http://bible.ort.org/books/torahd5.asp? ... portion=46
The bread we eat provides a divine life-force .
[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
It sez, "Submit to Roman occupation and get used to it. Pay taxes. You'll be better off if you do and dead if you don't".
What does that have to do with my question in the context of Secret's question??
Spin --
SA is asking a question in a Kantian/Neo-Kantian Framework (almost to Hegel) in that the statements tell of Category Information given by the Originator of the Statement. "Christos or Chrestos?". "Churches or Synagogues?" "Aramaic or assume that the earliest Christians spoke Greek?" I am no Kantian but his point has Value in that you may find a direction in a person's thought from what the Originator eliminates from feeling (Whitehead). You quote Matthew 11: 30 and I see that your consideration is not directed in a manner that would see that this is a Roman quote directed at a conquered people.
That's OK. I might be wrong. I find this section of the argument interesting. I'll be happy to refrain from comment if necessary.
SecretAlias wrote:Do we pursue christos or chrestos?
spin wrote:What does Mt 11:30 say?
Charles Wilson wrote:Matthew 11: 30 (RSV):
[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
It sez, "Submit to Roman occupation and get used to it. Pay taxes. You'll be better off if you do and dead if you don't".
spin wrote:What does that have to do with my question in the context of Secret's question??
SA is asking a question in a Kantian/Neo-Kantian Framework (almost to Hegel) in that the statements tell of Category Information given by the Originator of the Statement. "Christos or Chrestos?". "Churches or Synagogues?" "Aramaic or assume that the earliest Christians spoke Greek?" I am no Kantian but his point has Value in that you may find a direction in a person's thought from what the Originator eliminates from feeling (Whitehead). You quote Matthew 11: 30 and I see that your consideration is not directed in a manner that would see that this is a Roman quote directed at a conquered people.
What is the nexus between Secret's "Christos or Chrestos?" and Mt 11:30. C'mon horse, drink. (That's also rhyming slang.)
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
spin wrote:
I could briefly mention the term "christ", which originally meant "ointment"/"what is spread on" etc. As a loan translation from Hebrew it gained the meaning "messiah" in Jewish Greek cultic contexts. But it already had cultic use for Paul to continue in his religious efforts.
Didn't the religious use of 'christ' arise or derive via the act of anointing Kings or High Priest(with oil)?
Could it be that the apocalyptic voice accredited to the gospel Jesus is in fact the voice of the apocalyptic prophet Paul?
I've not really thought much about it since - but after having another look at Mason's article - the apocalyptic nature of Paul's gospel, seems to me, to suggest that perhaps it is Paul's apocalyptic voice that has been used as the apocalyptic voice of the gospel Jesus. Jesus could have other characteristics of course....However, if 'gospel' was someing identified with Paul and his writings - and Paul's usage became wateredown in the gospel usage - that opened the door, as it were, for Paul's apocalyptic voice to become the apocalyptic voice of the gospel Jesus....In other words, a later apocalyptic voice has been backdated to an earlier gospel Jesus figure.
Steve Mason
Paul’s proprietary usage of to euangelion appears throughout his writings. 1 Thessalonians, his earliest writing, is the earliest known Christian text. In its mere four pages or so, it uses to euangelion six times, defining the term in the process. At the first occurrence, Paul makes it proprietary (1 Thess 1:5): “our Announcement came to you not in word only, but also in power….” Happily, he goes on to remind his audience what it was that he announced to them on his recent visit (1:9-10): turn to serve living God, trust in him, and wait for his son (Christ) from heaven, who will rescue (or evacuate) his followers from impending divine wrath. While awaiting this salvation, Paul his followers are to live pure, blameless lives (4:1-8), so that they will be ready “at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (5:23-24). Paul had left the impression that this saving event would come very soon, so soon that they are troubled by its delay, and he now continues in this vein (1 Thess 4:13, 17; 5:1). This apocalyptically charged message is evidently the principal content of The Announcement.
By the time he writes 1 Corinthians, Paul has to face divisions among his followers, some of whom have since his visit opted to follow other teachers. Some defectors have come to think in terms of resurrection as an internal spiritual transformation, rather than being disposed to wait for a physical end of the age and resurrection of the dead—the core of The Announcement (4:8-13; 15:12-51).
my bolding
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
W.B. Yeats
spin wrote:This may be an old idea. I don't know. But I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.
The word ἀπόστολος is another one, I think.
Yes, good one. The cultic significance seems to have developed only in the christian context, as there is no hint of such a use emerging in Jewish writings including Josephus.
neilgodfrey wrote:in this context is the priene inscription with "gospel/good news" of Augustus relevant? -- (or it's not mentioned above because too well known?)
I wouldn't have thought of it, but it is certainly the sort of usage that would help to understand the christian trajectory of the term, especially given the dating.
MrMacSon wrote:
spin wrote:I could briefly mention the term "christ", which originally meant "ointment"/"what is spread on" etc. As a loan translation from Hebrew it gained the meaning "messiah" in Jewish Greek cultic contexts. But it already had cultic use for Paul to continue in his religious efforts.
Didn't the religious use of 'christ' arise or derive via the act of anointing Kings or High Priest(with oil)?
That is the origin of the Hebrew word messiah (which is derived from a verb "to smear"/"to anoint" and is used to indicate that which is anointed). Diaspora Jews needed a word in Greek to substitute for messiah and came up with a similar derivation of a verb "to rub"/"to anoint", but the word they formed already had the significance in Greek of "that which is anointed"/"ointment".
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes
