The evolution of christian cultic vocabulary

[MrMacSon]

The 'word they formed' was χριστος which looks OK, but doesn't mean to a Greek what the Jewish coiners of the word intended. Rather than the one who is smeared, it meant the stuff that is smeared.

When was it formed? When did it eventually come to mean khristós, “the anointed one” ?

[spin]

One example may be DIAKONOS which originally meant a helper or servant but which becomes a technical term for a Christian official. In some NT passages it is disputed which of these meanings is involved.

I had briefly thought about this, but L&S (1996) gives an alternate meaning as "attendant or official in a temple or religious guild" along with a few pre-christian references. That seems to create a prior precedent. Is there more to consider?

[spin]

The 'word they formed' was χριστος which looks OK, but doesn't mean to a Greek what the Jewish coiners of the word intended. Rather than the one who is smeared, it meant the stuff that is smeared.

When was it formed? When did it eventually come to mean khristós, “the anointed one” ?

LXX Isaiah 45:1 features the term. God talks of "my anointed, Cyrus". (The one who is smeared.)

[spin]

Use of "baptize" in a Jewish ritual purity situation:

Sirach 34:25 If a man washes (βαπτιζομενος) after touching a dead body, and touches it again, what has he gained by his washing?

Christian description of Pharisees "washing" food and vessels:

Mk 7:4 and they do not eat anything from the market unless they wash (βαπτισωνται) it; and there are also many other traditions that they observe, the washing (βαπτισμους) of cups, pots, and bronze kettles.

Christian report of a Pharisee shocked at Jesus not washing his hands:

Lk 11:38 The Pharisee was amazed to see that he did not first wash (εβαπτισθη) before dinner.

[Secret Alias]

I know you aren't seeing the bigger picture but let me try again. Why are you so certain that 'immersion' in Christianity is a development from Jewish ritual purity practices? Isn't it possible that the earliest Christians were imitating Moses being immersed by the cloud or the glory on Sinai? Is what I am saying starting to sink in? Isn't it possible you are following a trail of breadcrumbs set up by the wolf.

[Secret Alias]

Let's take a look at the passage you cited from YOUR gospels. Isn't Jesus rejecting the need for water immersion for ritual purity? Where is the evidence that Christian baptism developed from tevilah traditions. Paul's immersion interest is to take something dead and make it glorious, right? This has nothing to do with traditional ritual purity concerns. The focus is clearly Moses and his standing in the fire and his glorious transformation thereafter.

[Secret Alias]

Do some acid and we'll talk in a week. You're not seeing the walls in your own mind.

[Secret Alias]

And while you do read this ignoring the nonsense that Origen was 'innovating' from Jewish sources. The analysis is from Origen's discussion of Ezekiel chapter 1. He is just passing on the Alexandrian gnosis:

Halperin suggests that Origen's account of the baptism was the result of his contacts with Jewish scholars in Caesarea38 and derived from the association of the merkavah and the Sinai revelation which had by his time become established. The ascent of Jesus at his baptism was modelled on the ascent of Moses at Sinai, he said, and all the traditions about Moses as the heavenly hero were transferred to Jesus. Further, the Israelites at Sinai were believed to have experienced a death and resurrection experience at Sinai, dying at the sound of the voice of God, but being revived by the dew of Resurrection. This is suggested as the link to Christian baptism.

How much earlier can we get than this source? Who or what are your 'better sources' for the origin and meaning of Christian baptism?

[Secret Alias]

And the 'fire baptism' tradition is old (Pseudo-Cyprian) in Christianity and Judaism:

https://books.google.com/books?id=_ICO0 ... es&f=false

The model is always Moses on Sinai.

[Secret Alias]

So given the fact that (a) the gospel has Jesus reject Jewish ritual purity concerns and (b) Paul and the Christian tradition associated with him point to Moses's experience on Sinai as the ultimate source of 'immersion' interests - why don't other terms like 'apostle' also derive their grounding from the Book of Exodus? Regardless of your efforts to trace the origin of these terms to a profane language the obvious source is Hebrew and the Jewish writings.