First Century Christian Writings Missing from our Forum's Website

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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rakovsky
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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWeb

Post by rakovsky » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:40 am

Thanks, Ben.

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWeb

Post by rakovsky » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:16 am

Peter and Ben, Do you have the Sator Square mentioned on your sites?

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWeb

Post by Peter Kirby » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:55 pm

Not that I know of. It could be listed somewhere, but it's far from clear that it's originally Christian in origin.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWeb

Post by rakovsky » Mon May 01, 2017 6:29 am

Is there a reason why there are two pages for the gnostic Nag Hammadi Apocalypse of Adam - one on the Christian and one on the Jewish EW page, like there being two separate texts?
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/a ... eadam.html
http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/apocadam.html

I notice that usually scholars consider it nonChristian, but I am not sure if it really is. It looks to me like a gnostic Christian text, especially when it talks about the third Illuminator being born of the virgin, etc.

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWeb

Post by Peter Kirby » Mon May 01, 2017 8:28 pm

rakovsky wrote:like there being two separate texts?
There's no such implication.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWeb

Post by rakovsky » Tue May 02, 2017 10:32 am

Peter, you may want to consider adding
80-135 Epictetus on the Galileans
to your list. Some scholarly writings that talk about his writings on Christianity include:
Discourses of Epictetus (1904 edition comments);
Pagan Rome and the Early Christians by Stephen Benko
Peter Oakes, “Epictetus and the New Testament,” https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/vox/ ... _oakes.pdf

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWeb

Post by rakovsky » Tue May 09, 2017 9:38 am

I found the Gospel of Thomas Commentary on the EW site to be extremely helpful:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... mas87.html

SO many of the sayings are so obscure without the scholars linking them to explanations found in Christian and gnostic literature.
Part of the difficulty is that they are short and maybe written intentionally obscurely, like riddles.

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWebsite

Post by rakovsky » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:30 pm

Did Josephus write the "Discourse to the Greeks on Hades?"
Erroneously attributed to the Jewish historian since at least the 9th century, it is now believed to be (at least in its original form) the work of Hippolytus of Rome.
...
This brief discourse, at least in its original form, is now attributed to the church father Hippolytus.[4] The attribution to Josephus, recorded by Photius in his Bibliotheca,[3] did not stand unchallenged even in antiquity, and the "Discourse" was also ascribed to Caius, Presbyter of Rome, Justin Martyr, and Irenaeus.[5]

We now know that a work by Hippolytus published in Vol. 5 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers under the title "Against Plato, on the Cause of the Universe" is essentially the same work as the "Discourse" attributed to Josephus.[6] This Hippolytus work is in fact a fragment from a longer treatise entitled "Against the Greeks."[7] There are, however, some slight differences between the Hippolytus version and the one that has passed under Josephus' name, notably in the final "Josephus" paragraph. This includes the "In whatsoever ways I shall find you" quote mentioned above, which is not in Hippolytus' fragment as given in the Ante-Nicene Fathers but does appear in Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho (chapter 47), where it is also attributed to Jesus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus% ... ning_Hades
During the Renaissance a large seated statue of Hippolytus was found, in two pieces, above the catacomb where Hippolytus was supposedly buried. How did they know it was him? On the back was a list of books by this person, and around the base the dates for Easter for 200 years, beginning around 225 A.D. The list is very similar to the list in Eusebius (who devotes about a paragraph to Hippolytus), but had more books. Among those listed was the Refutation of All Heresies and On the Essence [or Cause] of the Universe. So they figured out it was Hippolytus, by way of reading Eusebius, but all they had by Hippolytus were fragments, quotes.

...

When Whiston translated Josephus, the fragment of "On the Essence of the Universe" was available in, what, four Greek manuscripts? Whiston brings them together in his book. So why did he attribute this to Josephus? Because at the top of one or more of these manuscripts (copies of copies of copies, of course), it is attributed to "Iosepe" (Greek). Why? Who knows?
http://www.josephus.org/FlJosephus2/Mai ... #discourse

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWebsite

Post by Peter Kirby » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:10 pm

rakovsky wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:30 pm
Did Josephus write the "Discourse to the Greeks on Hades?"
No, why?
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

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Re: Wiki EarlyChristian writings Missing from our Forum'sWebsite

Post by rakovsky » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:42 pm

Peter Kirby wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:10 pm
rakovsky wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:30 pm
Did Josephus write the "Discourse to the Greeks on Hades?"
No, why?
Thank you.
I like to double check my lists and make sure I haven't missed writings.

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