The Kingdom of Heaven: Real?!??

[Charles Wilson]

A short while ago, I received an E-Mail from a Scholar who teaches at one of the Biggies ("SEC! SEC! SEC!...")

"yes, recent exegetical work sees Matthew KOH as a ‘real place’ (vs. an ‘idea’). "

If True, then one huge part of the Work is done.

Matthew 23: 13 (RSV):.

[13] "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.

If the Kingdom of Heaven is a real place, then this is descriptive of some Event. Guess which Event? OK, OK, Certificates of Participation for those who don't agree...
Nonetheless, to me this is a finish to about 12 years work.

CW

[Bernard Muller]

According to "Matthew", the Kingdom of heaven was supposed to extend from heaven (where it allegedly already exists) to earth (in the near future):
Mt 6:10 RSV "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven."

Cordially, Bernard

[Secret Alias]

Behind the Greek word basileia is the Aramaic malkut, which does not refer to a geographical area or realm nor to the people inhabiting the realm but, rather, to the activity of the king himself, his exercise of sovereign power. The idea might better be conveyed in English by an expression such as kingship, rule, or sovereignty. Inasmuch as shamayim stands for the seat of God, where prayers are directed, and where the destinies of men are decided, it came to be used as an equivalent for "God." In rabbinical terminology shamayim without the article, became the regular expression for the name of God. So malkut shamayim is used in rabbinic texts in the sense of "sovereignty of God," as in the phrase meḳabbel 'ol malkut shamayim = "to accept the yoke of God's kingdom"—that is to accept God as the only true ruler (Ber. 2. 1). With reference to the Messianic age, it applies to the time when God will be the sole King on earth, in opposition to the kings of worldly powers (Pesiḳ. 51a; Cant. R. ii. 12). It is from here that the Christian concept originates.

The fact that different editions of the gospel translate malkut shamayim as both kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven is most interesting. It is difficult to understand where this interest originated other than a juxtaposition of heavenly rule against the rule of Caesar. In short it was a messianic conception. Yet it is hard to see Jesus as the royal figure who brings with him the yoke of the kingdom of heaven.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The word is better translated as "reign" or "governance" of Heaven than as a kingdom as a geographical place. It denotes an authority or government, not a "kingdom" in the sense of a bounded space. It's interesting that only Matthew is the only evangelist who uses βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν ("dominion of Heaven") while Mark and Luke use only βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ("dominion of God"). Matthew must be the one changing it. Has anyone of note done any work or developed any theories as to why Matthew would have done this? Could it be a sign that the author was Jewish and therefore more apt to use a circumlocution for God? The thing is, he does sometimes preserve basileia tou theou, but it's mostly late in his Gospel. He uses it in chapters 6, 12, 19 and 21 - editorial fatigue perhaps?

Incidentally, Josephus speaks of would be Messiahs like Judas the Galilean who thought their should be no king or authority but God. I'm not sure how that was supposed to be actualized in practice, but I do sometimes wonder if "kingdom of God" phraseology could be a reference to some kind of kingless theocracy.

[Ulan]

Could it be a sign that the author was Jewish and therefore more apt to use a circumlocution for God?

That sounds like a possibility. Maybe, it was also some kind of life insurance. "Kingdom of God" may still be misunderstood by the authorities in a state whose rulers see themselves as gods.

Incidentally, Josephus speaks of would be Messiahs like Judas the Galilean who thought their should be no king or authority but God. I'm not sure how that was supposed to be actualized in practice, but I do sometimes wonder if "kingdom of God" phraseology could be a reference to some kind of kingless theocracy.

Perhaps, there was some kind of nostalgia with regard to Persian times in place, when the temple priests were pretty much ruling the province themselves.

[Secret Alias]

The odd thing for me at least is that this doesn't seem to square very well with a multitudes of gods in heaven. It would seem to argue for some form of monarchism. This is the most interesting part of the formulation. Humanity has one 'rule' and heaven or God another. Jesus appears - likely as a god - to restore or perhaps introduce 'the rule of God.' Is he himself the ruler? He doesn't seem to act the part. His is not royal or king-like. Odd to have this sort of a messenger appear as the spokesman for the rule of heaven. One might rather expect a warrior to introduce the malkut of heaven. Strange to have the weakest of all divinities overcome by mortals and crucified as the one heralding the rule of heaven.

[iskander]

A short while ago, I received an E-Mail from a Scholar who teaches at one of the Biggies ("SEC! SEC! SEC!...")

"yes, recent exegetical work sees Matthew KOH as a ‘real place’ (vs. an ‘idea’). "

If True, then one huge part of the Work is done.

Matthew 23: 13 (RSV):.

[13] "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.

If the Kingdom of Heaven is a real place, then this is descriptive of some Event. Guess which Event? OK, OK, Certificates of Participation for those who don't agree...
Nonetheless, to me this is a finish to about 12 years work.

CW

Apparently listeners had no difficulty in understanding what he was saying to them.

Yet the influence of Judaism on the first Christians was so strong, that the "chiliasts" (those early Christians who believed that Jesus the Messiah would return, coming down to earth and setting up the millennial kingdom) pictured to themselves the Kingdom of Heaven filled with bodily and earthly pleasure, precisely as did the Jews.

THE MESSIANIC IDEA IN ISRAEL, From Its Beginning to the Completion of the Mishnah, page 10
by JOSEPH KLAUSNER, PM

[Bernard Muller]

The word is better translated as "reign" or "governance" of Heaven than as a kingdom as a geographical place. It denotes an authority or government, not a "kingdom" in the sense of a bounded space. It's interesting that only Matthew is the only evangelist who uses βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν ("dominion of Heaven") while Mark and Luke use only βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ("dominion of God").

However in gMatthew, βασιλεία is also used for earthly kingdom(s) as in 4:8 & 24:7.
In 16:8, the "son of man" (Jesus) is supposed to come back to earth as a king (see also 25:31-46).

Cordially, Bernard

[Charles Wilson]

According to "Matthew", the Kingdom of heaven was supposed to extend from heaven (where it allegedly already exists) to earth (in the near future):
Mt 6:10 RSV "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven."

Revelation 21: 22 (RSV):

[22] And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.

Bernard --

There's mischief afoot here. I'm gonna Post in a bit about the physical implications of the "Realm of Heaven" (Moffatt had a feel for the language...).
Notice the End of the End, however. The Temple will be gone!

(BTW, I had a little edge to another Post I made yesterday about the "Lamb of God" and I apologize for that.)

Here, however, notice how the Temple Service - ordained by God! - is smeared a bit in Matthew 6:10 and then eliminated by the time all of the Apostates have been murdered in Revelation. There is no Temple AND the New Temple is God and the "Lamb". What an IRONY! The Immar is to be worshipped and the Joke started with a Word Play on Immar/Immer.

Thanx for all the Posts so far, everyone.
More later,

CW

[Bernard Muller]

Revelation 21: 22 (RSV):

[22] And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.

Bernard --

There's mischief afoot here. I'm gonna Post in a bit about the physical implications of the "Realm of Heaven" (Moffatt had a feel for the language...).
Notice the End of the End, however. The Temple will be gone!

(BTW, I had a little edge to another Post I made yesterday about the "Lamb of God" and I apologize for that.)

Here, however, notice how the Temple Service - ordained by God! - is smeared a bit in Matthew 6:10 and then eliminated by the time all of the Apostates have been murdered in Revelation. There is no Temple AND the New Temple is God and the "Lamb". What an IRONY! The Immar is to be worshipped and the Joke started with a Word Play on Immar/Immer.

Thanx for all the Posts so far, everyone.
More later,

I was only dealing with gMatthew.
Other early Christians (and Jews along the ages) had different ideas about the kingdom of God. I always acknowledged that.

Cordially, Bernard