When Moses is Read

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

It is interesting to look at the statement "even to this day when Moses is read" in light of Heschel's discussion of the heavenly Torah. Paul is saying that a man - not God - wrote the Pentateuch. That itself is noteworthy. The Pentateuch is not itself divine. The Acts of Archelaus takes the discussion differently:
Precisely in this way, then, the law of Moses served as a sort of guardian to the people, like the tamp, until the true Sun, who is our Saviour, should arise, even as the apostle also says to us: And Christ shall give you light. We must look, however, to what is said further on: Their minds were blinded: for until this day remains the same veil in the reading of the Old Testament; it is untaken away, because it is done away in Christ. For even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit. What, then, is meant by this? Is Moses present with us even unto this day? Is it the case that he has never slept, that he has never gone to his rest, that he has never departed this life? How is it that this phrase unto this day is used here?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

One might expect that if Paul thought that the Pentateuch was from God that he would have used different wording. Paul is clearly referencing synagogal readings from the parshat. These sections come from a text written by a man, perhaps a great man, but again they do not come from God. This is very significant when we think of early Pauline exegesis and Marcion in particular.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

The same idea seems to be inherent in Tertullian's imaginary discussion with Marcion in Book One:
Admittedly it is somewhat later that Moses before others is seen to have established the God of the world in the temple of his writings: but we need not on that account reckon that the knowledge of him was born along with the Pentateuch, for Moses' writings as a whole do not initiate knowledge of the Creator, but rather describe it from the beginning, so that its age must be counted from Paradise and from Adam, not from Egypt and Moses. And again, the great majority of the human race, though ignorant even of Moses' name, not to mention his written works, do for all that know Moses' God. (Adv Marc 1.10)
The point of course is that the normative Jewish position from at least the time of Akiva is that Moses received the Pentateuch at Sinai - it came from God and was properly accorded divinity, it's author was God. The idea that the Pentateuch was not from heaven may well be the Christian position from early antiquity. Yet 2 Corinthians seems to go one step beyond just saying this. The very διαθήκη established by Moses was 'from man' rather than God too. This is quite incredible.

While διαθήκη comes to mean 'covenant' in the LXX it's proper meaning is rooted in wills and testaments (= disposition of property by will, testament, Ar.V.584,589, D.27.13, etc.; κατὰ διαθήκην by will, OGI753.8 (Cilicia), Test.Epict.4.8, BGU1113.5 (i B.C.), etc.). We know Paul makes a distinction between the will of man and the will of God. All signs then point to a distinction on Paul's part of a διαθήκη which is read and which is Moses's - and all the bad things referenced in 2 Corinthians (i.e. blinding the listeners etc) and another διαθήκη which comes from God.

It is for this reason that I am struck by Exodus 24:7 as the likely source of controversy for Paul. For there we read:
Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he splashed against the altar. Then he (Moses) took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that the Lord has said we will do, and be obedient.” 8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.” 9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
The context here is quite clear - and fits the context of 2 Corinthians. Let's break it down:

1. the people are encouraged to engage in sacrificial services
2. during the course of this bloody practice he reads from the 'book of the covenant' - a terminology never before introduced in the text and apparently quite distinct from the ten commandments.
3, the people only partake in the hearing of the and the bloody sacrifices while only a select few are allowed to see God - "“This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.

In effect then when seen from the context of the whole seen the people's eyes are blinded insofar as they are never afforded seeing the light of God. I am quite sure this is the context of the passage in 2 Corinthians.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

Clear parallels between Exodus 24 and 2 Corinthians 3:

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? [2 Cor 3:7]

The Lord said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone with the law and commandments I have written for their instruction.” Then Moses set out with Joshua his aide, and Moses went up on the mountain of God. 14 He said to the elders, “Wait here for us until we come back to you. Aaron and Hur are with you, and anyone involved in a dispute can go to them.” [Exodus 24:11 - 12]

29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the covenant law in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the Lord. 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, his face was radiant, and they were afraid to come near him. 31 But Moses called to them; so Aaron and all the leaders of the community came back to him, and he spoke to them. 32 Afterward all the Israelites came near him, and he gave them all the commands the Lord had given him on Mount Sinai. 33 When Moses finished speaking to them, he put a veil over his face. 34 But whenever he entered the Lord’s presence to speak with him, he removed the veil until he came out. And when he came out and told the Israelites what he had been commanded, 35 they saw that his face was radiant. Then Moses would put the veil back over his face until he went in to speak with the Lord. [Exodus 34:29 - 35]
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

What has always struck me about 2 Corinthians 3 is that it doesn't exactly match up with what it is written in Exodus:
if (Εἰ) the ministry of death (διακονία τοῦ θανάτου), which was in letters having been engraved on stone (ἐν γράμμασιν ἐντετυπωμένη λίθοις), was produced in glory (ἐγενήθη ἐν δόξῃ), so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, which was fading, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
It is hard not to read this sentence in the manner opposite to what I said before - namely that Paul is speaking about the ten commandments rather than the Pentateuch. The idea seems to be that Moses wrote the ten commandments 'in glory' that it did not come from God at all but from a glorified human being. This again seems to imply to mean that Jesus and Moses stood at Sinai together and - rather than the Samaritan understanding where God with fire inscribed the letters on the stones - Paul is envisioning God to have spoken and Moses to have written down the commandments (imperfectly) in (partial) glory. This connects back to the idea of 'when Moses is read' insofar again as the resulting text - the ten commandments - comes not from God but from Moses. This helps us make sense of another narrative or perhaps better a repeated narrative from the (lost) gospel of the Church Fathers - namely that Jesus critiques Moses's accuracy in laying down the word of God via the Torah. Moses seems to be in Paul's cross hairs but this may have been manipulated in the polemic against the Marcionites that they 'hated' the Jewish god. The original idea might have been that God allowed Moses to err until he came down to correct the imperfect Torah.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Charles Wilson
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Charles Wilson »

Secret Alias wrote:Moses seems to be in Paul's cross hairs but this may have been manipulated in the polemic against the Marcionites that they 'hated' the Jewish god. The original idea might have been that God allowed Moses to err until he came down to correct the imperfect Torah.
Which might explain:

Matthew19: 16 - 21 (RSV):

[16] And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"

[17] And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

[18] He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
[19] Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
[20] The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?"
[21] Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

The Ten Commandments are incomplete. If you want Life, keep the Commandments - but that's not enough.

CW
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

I was actually thinking more along the lines of Moses ADDING to the original command of Jesus/Ishu. This is what I get from Clement's discussion of the commandments in the gospel. I suspect that 'do not lust' was originally understood to be 'Ishu/Jesus's commandment' for lack of a better word - i.e. the tenth commandment. The idea must have been that the tenth commandment was the root of all the others as we hear intimated in Philo:
Is the love of money, or of women, or of glory, or of any one of the other efficient causes of pleasure, the origin of slight and ordinary evils? Is it not owing to this passion that relationships are broken asunder, and change the good will which originates in nature into an irreconcilable enmity? And are not great countries and populous kingdoms made desolate by domestic seditions, through such causes? And are not earth and sea continually filled with novel and terrible calamities by naval battles and military expeditions for the same reason? [Philo On the Ten Commandments 28]
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

So I think it is stupid the way people pretend that Marcionism 'makes no sense' in early Christianity or that - following the nonsense promoted by the Church Fathers - Marcion 'came up with this idea' that something was amiss in Judaism 'out of his own imagination.' The consistent criticism or 'tweaking' of Moses's narrative in the gospel can't be considered to be 'friendly' in the strictest sense. To be a Jew or Samaritan you have to accept on some level that the Ten Commandments and the Torah came from God and that the god who did this was awesome and great.

Many of the Church Fathers criticize Marcion for supposing God to 'pop down' from heaven. They say, where was he all this time? But I think the real understanding was more nuanced and more difficult to defend. If Moses fucked up things. If, let's say it was JUST acknowledged that he wrote the Ten Commandments or perhaps the entire Pentateuch - it has to be assumed that God wanted Moses do X. If the original position was that God wrote or dictated the whole Torah, why don't Christians engage in animal sacrifice or all the other things described? On some level God must have 'been absent' and allowed Moses to carry on with unauthorized activities.

The same weakness that God showed to Adam and Eve was continued in his interaction with Moses and the Israelites.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

So in light of our research the question arises again - what is meant by 'when Moses is read?' Is Paul referring to the Pentateuch (as I formerly supposed) or the Ten Commandments? Which of the two is understood to have been written by Moses, a man, rather than God?

I am starting to suppose that the Ten Commandments is understood to have a human origin. The reason is what appears in the section:
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[ the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
The confusing bit is with respect to the 'letters of written in ink' allusion that appears alongside the 'stone tablets.' Yet when you think about it, it is inescapable that at least - the Ten Commandments must also have been written by Moses according to Paul. My suspicion is that Paul is complaining that the Israelites should have been afforded the opportunity to become 'enlightened' like Moses as we see encapsulated in Methodius:
And all this was, not of works of righteousness Titus 3:5 which we have done, nor because we loved You—for our first earthly forefather, who was honourably entertained, in the delightful abode of Paradise, despised Your divine and saving commandment, and was judged unworthy of that life-giving place, and mingling his seed with the bastard off-shoots of sin, he rendered it very weak—but You, O Lord, of Your own self, and of Your ineffable love toward the creature of Your hands, hast confirmed Your mercy toward us, and, pitying our estrangement from You, hast moved Yourself at the sight of our degradation John 4:9 to take us into compassion. Hence, for the future, a joyous festival is established for us of the race of Adam, because the first Creator of Adam of His own free-will has become the Second Adam. And the brightness of the Lord our God has come down to sojourn with us, so that we see God face to face, and are saved Therefore, O Lord, I seek of You to be allowed to depart. I have seen Your salvation; let me be delivered from the bent yoke of the letter. I have seen the King Eternal, to whom no other succeeds; let me be set free from this servile and burdensome chain. I have seen Him who is by nature my Lord and Deliverer; may I obtain, then, His decree for my deliverance. Set me free from the yoke of condemnation, and place me under the yoke of justification. Deliver me from the yoke of the curse, and of the letter that kills; 2 Corinthians 3:6 and enrol me in the blessed company of those who, by the grace of this Your true Son, who is of equal glory and power with You, have been received into the adoption of sons.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: When Moses is Read

Post by Secret Alias »

So it has to be the Ten Commandments which Paul is referencing when he says:
But their minds were made blind, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
But let's look closer. During the Temple period the Ten Commandments were read daily in the Temple (Mishnah Tamid 5,1):
אמר להם הממונה. ברכו ברכה אחת והן ברכו. קראו עשרת הדברים. שמע. והיה אם שמוע. ויאמר. ברכו את העם שלש ברכות אמת ויציב. ועבודה. וברכות כהנים. ובשבת מוסיפין ברכה אחת למשמר היוצא:

The appointed [priest] said to them: “Say one blessing” [one right before the Shema], and they blessed. They then recited the Ten Commandments, 'Shema', 'Vehaya im Shamoa' and 'Vayomer' [the three paragraphs of the Shema]. They also blessed the people with these three blessings: Emet Veyatsiv [the blessing that follows the Shema in the morning prayer], Avodah [the blessing in Shemoneh Esreh calling for God to accept the Temple service], and the Birkat Kohanim [the Priestly Blessing]. On Shabbat, they added a blessing for the watch that was leaving.
In Berachot 12a Rashi explains 'heretics'(minim) to mean 'gentiles.' Rabbi Simchah of Vitry adds, "So that the disciples (of Jesus) would not say the remainder of the Torah is untrue" (Machzor Vitri, p.12). In contrast to Christian belief which believes that the Ten Commandments alone were given at Sinai, and in order to emphasize that the entire Torah was given at Sinai, we do not single out one portion of the Torah to read in the prayers.

The question of the daily recitation of the Ten Commandments arose again in Babylonia during the Gaonic period (Otzar Hagaonim, Megillah, p. 67) and also in Spain, where there was an initiative to re-instate their public reading. The Rashba (Rabbi Shlomo Ben Aderet, 1235-1310) prohibits reciting the Ten Commandments (Responsa, part 1, §184; part 3, §289) as did later halachic authorities (Rabbi Moshe Isserles, Shulchan Aruch Orach Chayim, 1,5; Be'er Hetev and Mishnah Berurah: "because of the heretics of Israel who would say - only this is the Torah").

Arising for the reading of the Ten Commandments first appears, to the best of our knowledge, in a responsum of Maimonides which relates a dispute over this issue.
From the Query:In one community they were accustomed to stand during the reading, until a wise rabbi came there and annulled that custom, instructing them to sit when it was read and preventing them from standing ... and he[the rabbi]included in his reply that anyone who wishes to stand when the Ten Commandments are read from the Torah scroll should be reproached, because to do so is the way of heretics who believe that the Ten Commandments have more importance than the rest of the Torah, and whenever the heretics believe differently from our Rabbis, of blessed memory, we must distance ourselves from them.

Maimonides' reply: That which the late rabbi instituted, to sit, is proper and his proofs are correct... and there is nothing to add to them. And it would be proper to do this in every place where they are accustomed to stand; one should prevent them from doing so because of the possible damage to belief, as some people may imagine that there are various levels of Torah and that only some parts are exalted, and that is a very bad thing... The claim of the opposing sage that in Bagdad and several other cities they did this[i.e. stood for the Ten Commandments], is by no means a proof. For if there are sick people, we do not make the healthy sick in order to render them all equal, rather we would try to cure each sick person... The Rabbis have already taught us that there is no difference between one who denies the Divine nature of the entire Torah and one who claims that a single verse 'Moses authored on his own'. There were among the heretics(minim) those who believed that only the Ten Commandments were given from Heaven and the remainder of the Torah was said by Moses himself, therefore the daily reading of the Ten Commandments was eliminated. And it is strictly forbidden to treat part of the Torah as if more exalted than another part. (Responsa of Maimonides, Blau Edition, Jerusalem, 1960, § 263).
But it is not at all clear that the Christians are meant as the minim here. The Samaritans and undoubtedly the Sadducees too understood the Ten Commandments to be the only portion given from God. But did the Christians - or Paul for that matter - really hold that the Ten Commandments came from God or Moses?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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