maryhelena wrote:At best it's an open question whether or not the Josephan writer had anything to do with early christian origins
MH, I'm not raggin' on you here. You've been pretty good lately.
1. Will someone,
anyone, look at these 2 entries and tell me that they carry the feeling of Objective Truth? - "Well, yeah, Charlie, this all sounds good to me...Yeah...Sure...Um Hmmm...":
Josephus,
Ant..., 13, 1 and 2, in Part:
"1. SO
Demetrius came with an army, and took those that invited him, and
pitched his camp near the city Shechem; upon which Alexander, with his six thousand two hundred mercenaries, and about twenty thousand Jews, who were of his party, went against Demetrius, who had three thousand horsemen, and forty thousand footmen. Now there were great endeavors used on both sides, - Demetrius trying to bring off the mercenaries that were with Alexander, because they were Greeks, and Alexander trying to bring off the Jews that were with Demetrius. However, when neither of them could persuade them so to do, they came to a battle, and Demetrius was the conqueror; in which all Alexander's mercenaries were killed, when they had given demonstration of their fidelity and courage. A great number of Demetrius's soldiers were slain also..."
Drumroll, please:
"2. Now as Alexander fled to the mountains,
six thousand of the Jews hereupon came together [from Demetrius] to him out of pity at the change of his fortune; upon which Demetrius was afraid, and retired out of the country; after which the Jews fought against Alexander, and being beaten, were slain in great numbers in the several battles which they had..."
Will someone tell me in what Universe this makes
any kind of sense? ANY?
The Greek General Demetrius Eucerus camps out at a place near what Temple? Oh! Right! I forgot! Josephus is writing HISTORY here. Temples don't enter in to the discussion (Until they do...) He decimates Jannaeus - which is what he was hired to do - and
THEN, the Jews take PITY on Jannaeus and drive a scared Eucerus
OUT OF THE COUNTRY!!!
Following this, Jannaeus triumphs and turns to Jerusalem and, Oh-By-The-Way, crucifies his enemies while killing the wives and the children in front of them:
"...he ordered about eight hundred of them to be crucified; and while they were living, he ordered the throats of their children and wives to be cut before their eyes..."
Wait a minute...Don't tell me...Oh, Yeah!:
Mark 13: 17 (RSV):
[17] And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days!
"Oh, that Charlie...Always - You know - findin' things."
2. The curious Case of Salome-Not-Alexandra:
Josephus, Ant..., 13, 12, 1:
"WHEN Aristobulus was dead, his wife Salome, who, by the Greeks, was called Alexandra, let his brethren out of prison, (for Aristobulus had kept them in bonds, as we have said already,) and made Alexander Janneus king, who was the superior in age and in moderation...."
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/artic ... -alexandra :
"That Alexandra, the widow of Aristobulus I., was identical with her who married his brother Alexander Jannæus, is nowhere explicitly stated by Josephus,
who no doubt took it for granted that the latter performed the levirate marriage prescribed by the law for the widow of a childless brother deceased. Josephus' statement ("Ant." xv. 6, § 3), that Hyrcanus, Jannæus' eldest son, was eighty years old when he was put to death by Herod, in 31 B.C., must be erroneous, for that would set the year of his birth as 111 B.C., and Jannæus himself was born in 125, so that he could have been but fourteen when Hyrcanus was born to him. It is difficult to understand how a thirteen-year-old boy married a widow of thirty..."
"Nothing to see here, folks...Just keep movin' along..." To this day, "Queen Salome" is known as "Queen Salome Alexandra", no doubt because the Chapter Heading was written in ink by the Great Historian Josephus. BTW, this continues a Racial Smear against the Hasmoneans, started at a dnner hosted by Hyrcanus 1. The whole thing stinks.
Can we blame this on Evil Redactors? Editorial Fatigue of Josephus himself? Of course Antiquities and Wars have evidence of the Transvaluation from the New Religion. It was written that way!
Josephus,
Antiquities..., `7, 9, 3:
"
But those that were seditious on account of those teachers of the law, irritated the people by the noise and clamors they used to encourage the people in their designs; so they made an assault upon the soldiers, and came up to them, and stoned the greatest part of them, although some of them ran away wounded, and their captain among them; and when they had thus done,
they returned to the sacrifices which were already in their hands..."
I forgot. Someone remind me. Who performs sacrifices in the Temple?
CW