Without the Church the World Will Destroy Itself

[iskander]

Adam and Eve had the mission of bringing about the fulfilment of creation by carrying out the God's commandment. They failed.
Where is the mistake?

[Secret Alias]

Your points aren't based on rational thought or exegesis. They are statements of belief in a particular doctrine and applying that to the text of the Pentateuch.

[iskander]

God created the world for the sake of the Torah


God created the world for the sake of the Torah is a religious statement and the Torah is a religious book.

So, within those parameters , how is it possible to identify something as a mistake?

[Secret Alias]

God created the world for the sake of the Torah

But the Pentateuch says that the world was created with a set numbers of days, even before the sun was created. How were there days before the creation of the sun? How was a '24 hour' period measured as a 'day' without the star used to measure such things?

God created the world for the sake of the Torah is a religious statement and the Torah is a religious book.

But Jews and Samaritans were split as to which 'Torah' came from heaven. Just as the Karaites originally preserved the idea that the Pentateuch was written by a human being, rabbinic sources acknowledge what the Samaritans continue to say - namely that only the Ten Commandments came from God or heaven. It is perfectly acceptable to say that the Pentateuch was made by a man (Moses or Ezra) and the Ten Commandments came from heaven or better yet (which is my position) that established tradition - EVEN THE ORIGINAL TRADITION associated with the Torah - established the Pentateuch to be man-made and the Ten Commandments the heavenly Torah.

So, within those parameters , how is it possible to identify something as a mistake?

Why would God have failed to recognize that one can't have days without a sun? Why would God have portrayed himself as a hot tempered impulse driven individual who changes his mind midway in the process of exterminating human kind? Why would God portray himself as changing his mind after hearing the arguments of Abraham? Or Moses? Why would God portray himself as not knowing where Adam is in the Garden? Why doesn't God speak in the first person when narrating the giving of the Law to Moses. Why does he say 'God said' when he is supposedly narrating? As already noted the evidence is overwhelming that a man wrote the Pentateuch and this - I believe - is behind Paul's juxtaposition between 'man-made' and 'heavenly' writings ('according to man/men').

[lsayre]

I even suspect the Ten Commandments as preserved in Exodus and Deuteronomy are inaccurate or not reflective of the more ancient inscriptions known to Philo and others

Please list the 10 commandments as Philo knew them when you find some time to do so. Or point to a link where you have already done (or discussed) this.

[Ananda]

I am not a Christian but I believe Christianity was designed to establish greater social order in antiquity (by a Jew). Without it we are doomed:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... source=twb

Where exactly is this greater social order in antiquity? Greater than what?

From article:
"African Americans under the age of 30 are three times as likely to eschew a religious affiliation as African Americans over 50. This shift is crucial to understanding Black Lives Matter, a Millennial-led protest movement whose activists often take a jaundiced view of established African American religious leaders."

a Millennial-led? dem millennials, dem millennials.lol

[iskander]

God created the world for the sake of the Torah

But the Pentateuch says that the world was created with a set numbers of days, even before the sun was created. How were there days before the creation of the sun? How was a '24 hour' period measured as a 'day' without the star used to measure such things?

God created the world for the sake of the Torah is a religious statement and the Torah is a religious book.

But Jews and Samaritans were split as to which 'Torah' came from heaven. Just as the Karaites originally preserved the idea that the Pentateuch was written by a human being, rabbinic sources acknowledge what the Samaritans continue to say - namely that only the Ten Commandments came from God or heaven. It is perfectly acceptable to say that the Pentateuch was made by a man (Moses or Ezra) and the Ten Commandments came from heaven or better yet (which is my position) that established tradition - EVEN THE ORIGINAL TRADITION associated with the Torah - established the Pentateuch to be man-made and the Ten Commandments the heavenly Torah.

So, within those parameters , how is it possible to identify something as a mistake?

Why would God have failed to recognize that one can't have days without a sun? Why would God have portrayed himself as a hot tempered impulse driven individual who changes his mind midway in the process of exterminating human kind? Why would God portray himself as changing his mind after hearing the arguments of Abraham? Or Moses? Why would God portray himself as not knowing where Adam is in the Garden? Why doesn't God speak in the first person when narrating the giving of the Law to Moses. Why does he say 'God said' when he is supposedly narrating? As already noted the evidence is overwhelming that a man wrote the Pentateuch and this - I believe - is behind Paul's juxtaposition between 'man-made' and 'heavenly' writings ('according to man/men').

The world was created for the sake of the Church, and God created the world for the sake of the Torah,


What next? Religious thinking is asserting that human life was created to conform to the will of the one Good of their choosing. We were created to serve the representatives of the one god and everything else is contrary to the plan of their ineffable unique God .

What could be said that would persuade them --- the servants of monotheism ,everywhere--that this is wrong?

[DCHindley]

I am not a Christian but I believe Christianity was designed to establish greater social order in antiquity (by a Jew). Without it we are doomed:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... source=twb

I am of the opinion that without the World, the Church will destroy itself.

DCH

[Secret Alias]

But seriously. I always imagine that intellectuals in previous ages refrained from embracing atheism (at least publicly) because of the recognition that (a) most of the world were ignorant brutes, (2) ignorant brutes are dangerous to the social order and (3) organized religion helps prevent ignorant brutes from destroying civilization. The danger of modernity is its trust in experimentation. Can ignorant brutish humanity be improved? An unproven hypothesis but we proceed as if it "must be" true. As an experiment modern America suggests (at least so far) demonstrates that human waste is unrecyclable. At best it can be kept at bay with superstition and fear.

[Giuseppe]

The Yazidis consider as Satan the God of the Christians, Jews and Muslims.

Secret Alias seems to assume that the Yazidis have the right to do so (because they are religious people), while the atheists can't have that same right.