Did Proto-Catholics circumcise as per Marcionite Galatians?

[stephan happy huller]

Tertullian Against Marcion 5:7

We must now encounter the subject of marriage, which Marcion, more continent than the apostle, prohibits. For the apostle, although preferring the grace of continence, yet permits the contraction of marriage and the enjoyment of it, and advises the continuance therein rather than the dissolution thoreof. Christ plainly forbids divorce, Moses unquestionably permits it. Now, when Marcion wholly prohibits all carnal intercourse to the faithful (for we will say nothing about his catechumens), and when he prescribes repudiation of all engagements before marriage, whose teaching does he follow, that of Moses or of Christ? Even Christ, however, when He here commands "the wife not to depart from her husband, or if she depart, to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband," both permitted divorce, which indeed He never absolutely prohibited, and confirmed (the sanctity) of marriage, by first forbidding its dissolution; and, if separation had taken place, by wishing the nuptial bond to be resumed by reconciliation. But what reasons does (the apostle) allege for continence? Because "the time is short." I had almost thought it was because in Christ there was another god! 

[beowulf]

My question is about who the circumcision party were.

The party were the Gentiles known as “God-fearers” and also the Jewish missionaries that had converted them to a diluted form of Judaism.
Paul offered “God-fearers” full membership, instead of a secondary status and Galatians (and Romans) are the starting point of Christianity as a breakaway sect of Judaism. Galatians shows the emerging Christianity competing with Judaism for the heart and the mind of the goy.




“Christianity, still deeply bonded to Judaism, accepted and based itself on the Jewish scriptures...Replicating Judaism’s synagogue structure and its networking enabled Christianity to offer a cohesiveness that pagan religions (commonly organized as local enclaves) could not match.

Moreover, Judaism at this point in its history, was modelling a creative and successful missionary style that also allowed for attracting and accepting in a kind of secondary status, Gentiles whom it styled “God-fearers”. These shared the faith, the worship and the ethical commitment of Judaism but were not obliged to adult male circumcision or to full compliance with the dietary laws, and thus were not full converts.

When Christianity emerged, however, it promised Gentiles acceptance as full members while allowing them to bypass the barriers of Jewish dietary laws and circumcision. God-fearers became key agents in publicizing Christianity’s appeal among the pagans.”


Professor Rabbi Michael J. Cook
Modern Jews Engage the New Testament

Jewish Lights Publishing Woodstock, Vermont, 2008

Pages 38ff

[EmmaZunz]

Stephen,

You said above that those people did not believe in circumcision; now you say that they were the circumcision party.

Robert Price presumes that, for Marcion, Abraham's God was the alien god.

[EmmaZunz]

Beowulf,

I don't think the opponents are god-fearing proselytes, since Paul tells the Galatians: "I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you." This suggests they thought of themselves as Christians.

Also Acts 15 admits that the circumcision party were "believers". This suggests Proto-Catholics knew this was an intra-Christian dispute.

[stephan happy huller]

Great argument

Tertullian Adv Marc 3:21

[stephan happy huller]

Where did I say they practiced circumcision?

[EmmaZunz]

Postby EmmaZunz » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:28 pm
My question is about who the circumcision party were.

Postby stephan happy huller » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:40 pm
Answer: the same proselyte community to which Aquila and Agrippa belonged. That's the most likely answer.

[beowulf]

Beowulf,

I don't think the opponents are god-fearing proselytes, since Paul tells the Galatians: "I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you." This suggests they thought of themselves as Christians.

Also Acts 15 admits that the circumcision party were "believers". This suggests Proto-Catholics knew this was an intra-Christian dispute.

The party were God-fearers, Jewish missionaries, believers in something or another, onlookers...

When Paul was preaching , Christianity did not yet exist : the group following Jesus was still nothing more than a Jewish sect. Christianity as a separate religion was started by Paul . Galatians and Romans were the making of it.

[stephan happy huller]

Tertullian specifically says the Marcionites appealed their message to the proselytes what's there to argue over?

[stephan happy huller]

The "proselytes" were Gentiles who had already come over to Judaism but weren't yet considered Jews