Marcion and 6000 Years

[Secret Alias]

I think most people know the strange reference to Daniel 7:25 to 'times, time and a half.' WTF does that refer to? Well I think I might have an alternative explanation which helps explain another seemingly unrelated end times explanation in Judaism and Christianity - the idea that the world will end in year 6000 AM.

First the passage in Daniel:

עַד-עִדָּן וְעִדָּנִין וּפְלַג עִדָּן = until a time and times and half a time

The letters add up to 587.

6000 is the only millennial year epoch that fits within the eschatological interest in Sabbatical cycles (an interest in 6000 AM shared by all Christians including Marcionites). First the math:

6000/7 = 587 + 1 (6000 is thus the messianic jubilee). I think this is significant given that Daniel already demonstrates a profound interest in weeks of years. The period in question is 587 weeks of years cryptically expressed by a saying (= until a time and times and half a time) which is virtually inexplicable taking the words at face value. Let's see if there is any support for this in Jewish mysticism.

[davidbrainerd]

an interest in 6000 AM shared by all Christians including Marcionites

Can you substantiate that claim?

[Secret Alias]

It's in De Recta in Deum Fide. Will get it soon.

[Secret Alias]

Here's Harnack on Irenaeus's belief in it - "The returning Christ will destroy him, and the Christ will come back when 6000 years of the world's history have elapsed; for "in as many days as the world was made, in so many thousands of years will it be ended" (V. 28. 3). The seventh day is then the great world Sabbath, during which Christ will reign with the saints of the first resurrection after the destruction of Antichrist. Irenæus expressly argued against such "as pass for orthodox, but disregard the order of the progress of the righteous and know no stages of preparation for incorruptibility" (V. 31)."

[Kris]

Sorry, is your math off? When it divide 6000 by 7, I get 857 not 587.

[Secret Alias]

Yes you're probably right. Let me change the OP.

[Kris]

I just used my calculator-- sorry! It was an interesting thought however! I think that these "mysterious" writings will never be fully understood.

[Secret Alias]

An overview of Patristic interest. https://books.google.com/books?id=INsxA ... nd&f=false

[Secret Alias]

(227) In the 42nd year and the fourth month of the reign of Augustus our Lord God Jesus Christ was born, eight days before the Kalends of January, on 25th December, at the seventh hour of the day, in a city of Judaea named Bethlehem, which is near Jerusalem, in the year 42 according to the calendar of Antioch the Great, while Quirinius the ex-consul was governor of Syria, Octavian and Silvanus were consuls, and emperor Herod was toparch, or emperor, of Judaea. Thus from Adam to Phalek, the son of Heber, the total is 2533 years, and from Phalek until the 42nd year of the reign of Augustus Caesar (228) 2967 years, so that the total from Adam the first-created until the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ and the 42nd year of the reign of Augustus Caesar is 5500 years. Then our Lord God passed 33 years on earth among men, as is recorded in the scriptures, so that from Adam until the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ and his crucifixion there were 5533 years. For Phalek, according to the prophetic words is said to be at the mid-point in time before the future coming of Christ. For just as he created man on the sixth day, as Moses stated, he recorded this too in his writings, "One day for the Lord is as a thousand years." It was on the sixth day, as scripture said, that God created man and man fell into sin, so it is plain that it was on the sixth millennium day that our Lord Jesus Christ appeared on earth, and saved man through the Cross and resurrection. This has been written by Clement, Theophilos and Timotheos, the learned chroniclers, who agree among themselves. The chronicler Eusebios Pamphilou, most dear to God, who became bishop of Caesarea in Palestine, also says that the Lord Jesus Christ, the saviour of all, appeared in the sixth millennium, corresponding to the number of the six days of Adam's creation. But he said that it was before the completion of the year 6000 that our Lord God Jesus Christ appeared on earth to redeem the human race. He was born and made man, he said, in the year 5500. Our Lord Jesus Christ suffered and rose again and ascended into heaven in the year 5533. All agree that the Lord appeared in the year 6000. So, in spite of variations up and down, they said that he appeared in the sixth year, in accordance with the words of prophecy; and even if those who have made statements about the number of years do not agree, he appeared at the end of time, as the sacred scripture shows. [John Malalas]

[davidbrainerd]

It's in De Recta in Deum Fide. Will get it soon.

I'm interested in this. Because I would assume the Marcionite retort to Tertullian's rhetoric "why did your god wait so long" would be Paul on the "fullness of time" probably interpreted that since with two gods neither is almighty their god needed to wait for circumstances favorable to a worldwide spread of his message, which was realized by the Pax Roma.