My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnostics

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnostics

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:11 pm

About the Mythicists:


[tbody] [/tbody]
Paul wrote the Epistles Paul didn't write the Epistles Magic World of Astrotheology
Why did the Pillars hate Paul? Proponent What before ''Paul''? Proponent Pier Tulip, Acharya
Because, even if Paul was personally Torah-observant, he allowed freedom from Torah to his followers. Earl Doherty, Richard Carrier, Paul-Louis Couchoud, David Fitzgerald, G. A. Wells, Roger Viklund, R. G. Price, Alvar Ellegård, W. B. Smith Proto-gnostic preachers of Christ (à la Simon Magus) in conflict with Joshua-emulators. Robert M. Price, Hermann Detering
Because Paul was the first to introduce the crucifixion of Jesus Christ Freke and Gandy, Edward Van der Kaaij Proto-gnostic preachers of Christ not in conflict with Joshua-emulators René Salm
Because Paul hated the god of the Jews Roger Parvus, Gordon Rylands a pre-christian cult of Joshua Thomas Whittaker, Harold Leidner
Because Paul killed James Vincent Czyz Gnostic speculations in Alexandria Tom Bolland
Because Paul invented the Pillars Robert J. Jewish schools Thomas L. Brodie
a pre-christian cult of CHRESTOS Frank Zindler
a historical Paul who never wrote 'Jesus' Frans Vermeiren
The Egyptian Prophet as real Historical Jesus Lena Einhorn
only the Fourth Philosophy and Jesus ben Ananias as real Historical Jesus Claude Bertin
a Roman conspiracy to invent Jesus Joe Atwill
ditheist Jews in conflict with monotheist Jews Stephan L. Huller
Judas the Galilean (or his son John of Gamala=John the Baptist) as real historical Jesus Eric Laupot, Enrico Tuccinardi


A personal classification of the Jesus Agnostics:

[tbody] [/tbody]
Paul wrote the Epistles Paul didn't write the Epistles
Raphael Lataster Stuart Waugh

I think that the latter distinction is necessary, as I consider the Jesus Agnosticism a more intellectually honest and sane position but only under the assumption that Paul didn't write the Epistles. My opinion is that insofar you have in your hands the witness of a Christian contemporary with a hypothetical historical Jesus, you can't endlessly evade taking a stand. You have to decide: Myth or historicity. Tertium not datur.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnosti

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:27 pm

And obviously my position is the same of Earl Doherty with sympathy about Parvus's view,

...but this does not keep me from reading any other mythicist (as long as he is not a stronzo of astrotheologist).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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spin
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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnosti

Post by spin » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:45 pm

Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes

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arnoldo
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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnosti

Post by arnoldo » Mon May 01, 2017 2:37 pm

You forgot to add Mountainman's Eusebian Fiction Postulate in the box a "Roman conspiracy to invent Jesus."

iskander
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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnosti

Post by iskander » Mon May 01, 2017 3:00 pm

arnoldo wrote:You forgot to add Mountainman's Eusebian Fiction Postulate in the box a "Roman conspiracy to invent Jesus."
Who is "you" :)

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arnoldo
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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnosti

Post by arnoldo » Tue May 02, 2017 2:42 am

iskander wrote:
arnoldo wrote:You forgot to add Mountainman's Eusebian Fiction Postulate in the box a "Roman conspiracy to invent Jesus."
Who is "you" :)
Why the creator of the table is "you", that's who. Although fictional, the possibility listed in Behold the Man by Michael Moorcock may be added to the table.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behold_the_Man_(novel)
*Edit*
My autographed copy which may or not be a forgery.
Image

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Giuseppe
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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnostics

Post by Giuseppe » Mon May 18, 2020 6:52 am

I have found a past distinction among Mythicists that is very useful even today, I think.
  • the Typologist current: the Earliest Gospel is basically the OT. Therefore Jesus never existed. This remembers Thomas Brodie, R.G. Price.
  • the pre-Christian Jesus: There was a pre-Christian cult of Jesus. Therefore Jesus never existed. it is recognized as an hypothesis, but as an hypothesis based on the claim that "Anything that is necessary exists". So I would place here Drews, Robertson, etc.
  • the current of the visionaries: Paul didn't see the Christ and Paul didn't say that the Twelwe saw the Christ and the original epistles suggest that they have not seen him more than he did. Therefore Jesus never existed. I would place here Doherty, Carrier, etc.
It is evident that I place myself among the 'visionaries'. :cheers: But I think that the hypothesis of a pre-Christian Joshua has some value, too, along the lines of "anything that is necessary exists".
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnostics

Post by cantonin_01 » Mon May 18, 2020 11:54 am

Maybe I’m misunderstanding the graph, but I believe Mr. Rylands should be in the Paul Didn’t Write the Epistles / Proto-Gnostics Did section.

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Re: My PERSONAL classification of Mythicists & Jesus Agnostics

Post by Giuseppe » Mon May 18, 2020 8:09 pm

cantonin_01 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:54 am
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the graph, but I believe Mr. Rylands should be in the Paul Didn’t Write the Epistles / Proto-Gnostics Did section.
To my knowledge, he believed that the four "cardinal" epistles were genuine and that Paul hated YHWH.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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