Tertullian's Praescriptione = Irenaeus's προστάγμασι

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andrewcriddle
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Re: Tertullian's Praescriptione = Irenaeus's προστάγμασι

Post by andrewcriddle »

Secret Alias wrote:
My point is that Irenaeus as used by Cyril is at least vaguely related to Against Heresies and not related at all to the material in Tertullian's Prescription.
But would you agree that it was possible that someone took the Appendix Against All Heresies or an early Greek predecessor as part of the original work?
Yes it is possible.

Andrew Criddle
Secret Alias
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Re: Tertullian's Praescriptione = Irenaeus's προστάγμασι

Post by Secret Alias »

It would seem that Pseudo-Tertullian was used by all late heresiologists - Epiphanius and Filaster - https://books.google.com/books?id=C97_r ... us&f=false. Thus the idea that Cyril would have been influenced by it is not incredible. It was widely influential.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
andrewcriddle
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Re: Tertullian's Praescriptione = Irenaeus's προστάγμασι

Post by andrewcriddle »

Secret Alias wrote:It would seem that Pseudo-Tertullian was used by all late heresiologists - Epiphanius and Filaster - https://books.google.com/books?id=C97_r ... us&f=false. Thus the idea that Cyril would have been influenced by it is not incredible. It was widely influential.
I may be misunderstanding, but I am not sure that pseudo-tertullian is relevant here.

Andrew Criddle
Secret Alias
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Re: Tertullian's Praescriptione = Irenaeus's προστάγμασι

Post by Secret Alias »

Hurried composition. Apologies. It is hard to keep all these ideas straight in one's head. I wonder if critics of the theory that Pseudo-Tertullian, Epiphanius and Filaster go back to Hippolytus's Syntagma might have a point. So let's try to keep things straight.

1. Hippolytus's Syntagma was a booklet (so described by Photius) which ran Dositheus to Noetus.
2. Pseudo-Tertullian still has a vague sense of the Dositheus to Noetus ordering (Dositheus is still mentioned first) but the preservation of the original material isn't always exact but a long section of the original ordering is preserved and agreed with (3) and (4)
3. Epiphanius has the Samaritans as the first of the heresies (perhaps echoing or acknowledging the sense of the lost original) but the original has been reworked
4. Philaster has reworked the original but kept a long section in the same ordering as (2) and (3)

The following list of heresies in the three writers, carried down as far as the Arians, will make these phenomena plain:
EPIPHANIUS PSEUDO-TERTULLIAN PHILASTER
[bgcolor=]Ophites
Cainites
Sethites
Barbarism
Scythism
Hellenism:—
Platonists
Pythagoreans
Stoics
Epicureans
Samaritans:—
Gortheni
Sebuaei
Essenes
Dositheus[/bgcolor] Dositheus Dositheus
[bgcolor=]Judaism:—
Scribes
Pharisees[/bgcolor] Sadducees Sadducees
[bgcolor=] Sadducees[/bgcolor] Pharisees Pharisees
[bgcolor=] Hemerobaptists [/bgcolor] Samaritans
[bgcolor=] Ossenes
Nazarenes (Νασσαραιοι)[/bgcolor] Nazarenes (Nazaraei)

[bgcolor=]Essenes[/bgcolor]
Heliognosti
Frog-worshippers (Ranarum cultores)
Musorites
Musca-accaronites
Troglodytes
De Fortuna Caeli
Baalites
Astarites
Moloch-worshippers
De Ara Tophet
Puteorites
Worshippers of the Brazen Serpent
Worshippers in subterranean caves
Thammuz-mourners
Baalites (or Belites)
Baal-worshippers
de Pythonissa
Astar and Astaroth-worshippers
[bgcolor=]Herodians[/bgcolor] Herodians Herodians
[bgcolor=]Simon Magus[/bgcolor] Simon Magus Simon Magus
[bgcolor=]Menander[/bgcolor] Menander Menander
[bgcolor=]Saturninus[/bgcolor] Saturninus Saturninus
[bgcolor=]Basilides[/bgcolor] Basilides Basilides
[bgcolor=]Nicolaitans[/bgcolor] Nicolaitans Nicolaitans
===========================Gnostici (isti Barbelo venerantur)
===========================Borborians (Barbelites)
===========================Judaites
............Ophites
............Cainites
............Sethites
[bgcolor=]Carpocrates[/bgcolor] Carpocrates Carpocrates
[bgcolor=]Cerinthus[/bgcolor] Cerinthus Cerinthus
[bgcolor=]Nazarenes (Ναζωραιοι)[/bgcolor]
[bgcolor=]Ebionites[/bgcolor] Ebionites Ebionites
[bgcolor=]Valentinus [/bgcolor] Valentinus Valentinus
[bgcolor=]Secundus[/bgcolor] Ptolemaeus Ptolemaeus
[bgcolor=]Ptolemaeus[/bgcolor] Secundus Secundus
[bgcolor=]Marcosians[/bgcolor] Heracleon Heracleon
[bgcolor=]Colarbasus [/bgcolor] Marcus Marcus
[bgcolor=]Heracleon[/bgcolor] Colarbasus Colarbasus
============================Ophites
============================Cainites
============================Sethites
============================Archontici
[bgcolor=]Cerdon[/bgcolor] Cerdon Cerdon
[bgcolor=]Marcion[/bgcolor] Marcion Marcion
[bgcolor=]Apelles[/bgcolor] Lucan Lucan
[bgcolor=]Lucian[/bgcolor] Apelles Apelles
[bgcolor=]Severians
Tatian[/bgcolor] Tatian Tatian
[bgcolor=]Encratites [/bgcolor]
[bgcolor=]Cataphrygians:—[/bgcolor] Cataphrygians:— Cataphrygians
..........................secundum Proclum
..........................secundum Aeschinem
..........................Montanists
..........................Tascodrugites
..........................Pepuzians
..........................Quintillians
..........................Artotyrites
Quartodecimans
Alogi
Adamians
Sampsaeans
(Elkesaeans)
Blastus
Theodotus Theodotus Theodotus
De Patris et
Filii substantia
Melchizedekites Melchizedekites Melchizedekites
(Theodotus II)
Bardesanes
Noetians Praxeas Noetians
(end)
Valesians Sabellians
Cathari (Praxeans)
Angelici (Hermogenians)
Apostolici Seleucus
Sabellians Hermias
Origenaeans Proclianites
Paul of Samosata (Hermeonites)
Manichaeans Florians
Hierakites (Carpocratians)
Meletians Quartodecimans
Chilionetites
Alogi
Manichaeans
Patricians
Symmachians
Paul of Samosata
Photinus
Arians Arians

I wonder whether the booklet wasn't even by Hippolytus at all but whether he merely augmented an original composition of Irenaeus:
the tractate entitled Against the Thirty-two Heresies (τὸ σύνταγμα κατὰ αἱρέσεων λβʹ) of Hippolytus, the pupil of Irenaeus. It begins with the Dositheans, and goes down to the heresies of Noetus and the Noetians. These he says were refuted (the tractate entitled Against the Thirty-two Heresies (τὸ σύνταγμα κατὰ αἱρέσεων λβʹ) of Hippolytus, the pupil of Irenaeus. It begins with the Dositheans, and goes down to the heresies of Noetus and the Noetians. These he says were refuted (ἐλέγχοις) by Irenaeus in his addresses (ὁμιλοῦντος), of which the present work is a synopsis." [Photius Biblio. 121]) by Irenaeus in his addresses (ὁμιλοῦντος), of which the present work is a synopsis." [Photius Biblio. 121]
To this end the agreement between Pseudo-Tertullian and the other two is indirect owing to an underlying origin of (1) (2) and (3) with a lost treatise of Irenaeus which appended to the back of his Prescription of which Pseudo-Tertullian is only a rough approximation.

The reason I bring this up is the fact that Ebion is first identified as the leader of the Ebionites in the nexus of material cited above (i.e. 1, 2, and 3). Yet it is also worth noting that the Prescription also makes the same identification:
Where the resting-place of belief ? Where the fulfilment of finding? With Marcion ? 1 But Valentinus also enunciates "Seek and ye shall find." With Valentinus, then ? But Apelles too will attack me with this same injunction; and Ebion and Simon and all one after another who have no other means of ingratiating themselves with me and winning me over to their party [Praescr 10]

Paul, in his first Epistle to the Corinthians, censures the deniers and doubters of the resurrection.1 This opinion is properly that of the Sadducees.2 Marcion adopts a part of it, and Apelles, and Valentinus, and all others who impugn the resurrection of the flesh.3 In writing to the Galatians4 he rebukes the observers and defenders of circumcision and the Law. This is the heresy of Ebion.5 When giving instructions to Timothy 6 he also brands with reproach those who forbid marriage. Marcion and his follower Apelles lay down this prohibition. [ibid 33]

Again, in his Epistle,6 he especially calls those Antichrists who denied that "Christ has come in Flesh," and who did not regard Jesus as the Son of GOD. The former point Marcion maintained, the latter Ebion. The system also of Simonian sorcery, serving angels, was expressly reckoned among idolatries, and by the Apostle Peter condemned in the person of Simon himself. [ibid]
The point of course is that the Prescription's identification of Ebion as the leader of the Ebionites is undoubtedly related to the underlying source material for the appendix.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Tertullian's Praescriptione = Irenaeus's προστάγμασι

Post by Secret Alias »

Not only are Praescriptione and Against the Valentinians Irenaean compositions copied out by Tertullian into Latin, Evans points to another:
The work de spe fidelium, which is lost, was known to Jerome: it probably owed much to Irenaeus, AH. v. xxxi-xxxvi.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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