In the Got 42, the coptic phrase swpe etetnrparage (swpe etetnrparage, "come-to-be as you(pl) pass-away) includes the Greek loan-word παράγειν, the infinitive present active form of the verb παράγω (paragō, "to pass away," although it can mean many other things as well), but I wonder if this does not ultimately derive from Aristotle's treatise "On coming to be and passing away" (γενέσεως καὶ φθορᾶς, geneseōs kai phthoras). If so, then φθορᾶς might not have had a good Coptic equivalent, and the closest Greek loanword paragon was used by a translator, who was certain his readers would not be familiar with Greek phthoras. Basically, Aristotle was discussing the problem of what coming to be means and what passing away means.
Thoughts?
DCH
PS: I seem to recall stumbling upon a book about the Gospel of Thomas, maybe a dissertation, where the Coptic text was transliterated into English letters. Does anyone know what the work I am thinking of is or where it may be available online? I can't seem to locate a copy on my computer, unless I am barking up the wrong trees. Man, I was JUST looking at it, and thought I posted from it here, but this may be a message that I forgot to send before obliterating it by accident.
GoT 42: What's it supposed to mean?
- Ben C. Smith
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Re: GoT 42: What's it supposed to mean?
Not sure which web site you have in mind, but both Peter Kirby and Michael Grondin used to have great pages about the gospel of Thomas. Grondin had a Coptic interlinear version, while Peter had the Oxyrhynchus fragments available alongside the Coptic text and English translation, along with comments.DCHindley wrote:In the Got 42, the coptic phrase swpe etetnrparage (swpe etetnrparage, "come-to-be as you(pl) pass-away) includes the Greek loan-word παράγειν, the infinitive present active form of the verb παράγω (paragō, "to pass away," although it can mean many other things as well), but I wonder if this does not ultimately derive from Aristotle's treatise "On coming to be and passing away" (γενέσεως καὶ φθορᾶς, geneseōs kai phthoras). If so, then φθορᾶς might not have had a good Coptic equivalent, and the closest Greek loanword paragon was used by a translator, who was certain his readers would not be familiar with Greek phthoras. Basically, Aristotle was discussing the problem of what coming to be means and what passing away means.
Thoughts?
DCH
PS: I seem to recall stumbling upon a book about the Gospel of Thomas, maybe a dissertation, where the Coptic text was transliterated into English letters. Does anyone know what the work I am thinking of is or where it may be available online? I can't seem to locate a copy on my computer, unless I am barking up the wrong trees. Man, I was JUST looking at it, and thought I posted from it here, but this may be a message that I forgot to send before obliterating it by accident.
Grondin's Coptic interlinear is available as a PDF on the Internet Archive (Wayback Machine): https://web.archive.org/web/20050512011 ... 112702.pdf.
His site is available there, as well, and his internal links to Peter's page still work: https://web.archive.org/web/20050817091 ... transl.htm.
But the Coptic transliterated into Roman/English letters? Not sure about that, sorry.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ
Re: GoT 42: What's it supposed to mean?
Thanks ben,
But yes, I was aware of the Grondin interlinear as well of several others, only I despair that many do not know how to read Coptic letters (I know I don't). It is not a certainty that the underlying ASCII characters accurately represent the sounds of the Coptic letters.
My hope was for a true English transliteration to help myself as well as the "great unwashed" who lurk on the forum(s) I frequent, when I want to propose something relating to it.
You may notice that I often transliterate the Greek in the same way, as many who are otherwise intelligent people are not able to read Greek letters (although I can).
DCH
But yes, I was aware of the Grondin interlinear as well of several others, only I despair that many do not know how to read Coptic letters (I know I don't). It is not a certainty that the underlying ASCII characters accurately represent the sounds of the Coptic letters.
My hope was for a true English transliteration to help myself as well as the "great unwashed" who lurk on the forum(s) I frequent, when I want to propose something relating to it.
You may notice that I often transliterate the Greek in the same way, as many who are otherwise intelligent people are not able to read Greek letters (although I can).
DCH
- Ben C. Smith
- Posts: 8994
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: GoT 42: What's it supposed to mean?
Well, my Coptic is limited strictly to those words that derive from Greek, and no grammar at all.DCHindley wrote:Thanks ben,
But yes, I was aware of the Grondin interlinear as well of several others, only I despair that many do not know how to read Coptic letters (I know I don't).
What a kurios thing to do.My hope was for a true English transliteration to help myself as well as the "great unwashed" who lurk on the forum(s) I frequent, when I want to propose something relating to it.
You may notice that I often transliterate the Greek in the same way....
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ