The spear versus the cross

[Giuseppe]

Rylands points out that in Revelation Jesus is not crucified but killed by a spear during a ritual sacrifice.

Therefore we have two pre-Gospel myths of the death of Jesus:

1) the Crucifixion (where the archons are the killers).
2) the Sacrifice (where God is the killer).

It is relatively easy to see the solution adopted by the Gospel:
Jesus is crucified by his earthly enemies but at the end he dies only by the spear of someone who doesn't figure directly among his enemies.

[MrMacSon]

John 19
33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water flowed out. 35 The one who saw it has testified to this, and his testimony is true. He knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.…

1 John 5:6
This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ--not by water alone, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth.

1 John 5:8
the Spirit, the water, and the blood--and these three are in agreement.

Revelation 1
6 who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen. 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him — even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.…

Isaiah 53:5
But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

...the ‘spear piercing the side’ incident seems to have been added for a specific purpose. It is clear that in some of the ancient cultures in the era of and before the Roman Empire, there were sacrificial victims who were portrayed as having been ‘wounded in the side.’

The Scandinavian god Odin and Marsyas of Mindanao were said to be hung on a tree and stabbed with a spear, just as the Christ as Jesus was said to have been crucified and stabbed by Longinus’ spear. Vishnu, Wittoba, and Adonis were all crucified saviors stabbed in the side as well.

• 
  in an archetypical motif, the Norse God Odin was hung on a tree and wounded with a spear. Much like the Christian God who was incarnated as Jesus, in the Norse mythology Odin is depicted as hanging on the ‘world-tree’ in an act of sacrifice and wounded with a spear.
  
  In the ancient Norse text the Havamal, one of the Norse eddas, contains a poem called the Runatal (stanza 138), which quotes Odin as saying:
  

  • “I know that I hung, on a windy tree,
    for all of nine nights, wounded with a spear,
    and given to Óðinn, myself to myself,
    on that tree, which no man knows from what roots it runs.”

  What’s even more interesting is that, Odin’s beloved son, Balder, is pierced with a spear of mistletoe. Balder dies, as did the Christ as Jesus, and like Jesus in Revelation, Balder will be reborn or resurrected in the time of the Ragnarok or the Norse ‘apocalypse’ to destroy evil once and for all.
  
  Moreover, as Jesus is the ‘Light of the World, so Balder is the ‘god of light.’ So, like Jesus, Balder is the savior of the world who brings peace. And, similar to Jesus who had 12 apostles, Balder is depicted as having 12 knights.
  
  The Christ motif is universal. Christ means ‘the anointed one’ and is a term applied to Attis, Adonis, Tammuz, Osiris, Krishna and many other pre-Christian gods. Even the name ‘Christ’ is a variation on KRST (Horus, the Anointed One) and Krishna (Christna or Christos in Bengali) thousands of years before the Christ as Jesus walked the Earth.
  
  In his book the Bible Fraud, author Tony Bushby reminds us:

  • “The word Kristo and its derivations, Krst, Krist, Kristo, Khyst, and Krish-na, all appeared in every ancient religious system. The original Kristo concept was believed to be the personal and invisible mediator and guide between God and everything spiritual in man. The Krist concept has been an ancient religious tradition continually suppressed by the Catholic church through the centuries.”

Our conclusion is that ‘side-wounding and spear-piercing’ are universal archetypes. They point to something fundamental in the human condition! The spear piercing may even point to humankind’s dynamic divinity represented by the ‘first couple’- Adam and Eve! ...

...from a deeply spiritually and allegorical perspective, we’re going to elaborate on the promise we mentioned earlier about the ‘first couple’ which we believe ties the spear-piercing myth to the Adam and Eve myth.

According to Jewish tradition, Eve was produced from Adam’s rib. However, allegorically speaking, we believe it means that all creation occurs when the Cosmic Life Force (Spirit’s vertical dimension) descends into matter (the horizontal dimension) and forms a right angle at the point where the two meet.

The result of this cosmic penetration is symbolized by the human skeleton, which features the spinal column and the ribs that are at right angles at their juncture. (When you stand straight with your legs together and your arms extended shoulder level high, your body is in the shape of a cross). Eve, representing universal feminine energy, is formed (set free) when the horizontal arm (rib) of the allegorical cross meets the descending energy of Spirit.

• • • • 

        silhouette-forming-a-cross_gs-mkrs_xdo-copy.jpg (25.88 KiB) Viewed 4634 times

We can extend this allegory by suggesting that the spear represents a second horizontal influence, which is the product of a self-aggrandizing ego that wants to ensure its temporal rulership. It wants to make sure that not only our spiritual dimension dies but the dynamic dimension of the eternal feminine energies will be prevented from being released as they were at the ‘birth’ of Eve.

...The spear (the piercing nature of our self-aggrandizement) in our side is the recalcitrant ego’s weapon of choice to ensure its dominance over our human personality. However, the same story surfaces in every faith tradition – the transforming power of our Heart Center and the resurrecting power of our Divine Nature will prevail!

https://metaphysicalbible.wordpress.com ... esus-side/

---

Luke 23:47
Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man."

Mark 15:39
And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God."

Matthew 27:54
Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God."

---

[arnoldo]

Then Annas and Caiaphas said: Rightly have you said what is written in the law of Moses, that no one saw the death of Enoch, and no one has named the death of Moses; hut Jesus was tried before Pilate, and we saw him receiving blows and spittings on his face, and the soldiers put about him a crown of thorns, and he was scourged, and received sentence from Pilate, and was crucified upon the Cranium, and two robbers with him; and they gave him to drink vinegar with gall, and Longinus the soldier pierced his side with a spear; . . . Then Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, Father, into Thy hands I shall commit my spirit, breathed His last. And immediately one could see the rocks rent: for there was an earthquake over all the earth; and from the earthquake being violent and great, the rocks also were rent. And the tombs of the dead were opened, and the curtain of the temple was rent, and there was darkness from the sixth hour till the ninth. And from all these things that had happened the Jews were afraid, and said: Certainly this was a just man. And Longinus, the centurion who stood by, said: Truly this was a son of God. Others coming and seeing Him, beat their breasts from fear, and again turned back.

And the centurion having perceived all these so great miracles, went away and reported them to Pilate. And when he heard, he wondered and was astonished, and from his fear and grief would neither eat nor drink that day.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... berts.html

[andrewcriddle]

Revelation 11:8

and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

Andrew Criddle

[Ben C. Smith]

Andrew, how do you reconcile the "great city" here being (apparently) Jerusalem when elsewhere in the book it is (apparently) Rome?

[Peter Kirby]

If I understand, Ben, you've suggested it might have been an interpolation, right?

[Ben C. Smith]

If I understand, Ben, you've suggested it might have been an interpolation, right?

Somebody else suggested it; but I sympathized, and I assumed it for the purposes of my thread about my hybrid approach to Christian origins.

[DCHindley]

Ben,

There can't be more than one "great city"?

Even so, IIRC, the Revelation shows many seams that indicate sources have been used in a sense different than what they originally had.

DCH

Andrew, how do you reconcile the "great city" here being (apparently) Jerusalem when elsewhere in the book it is (apparently) Rome?

[Ben C. Smith]

Ben,

There can't be more than one "great city"?

Sure, but put the definite article back in ("the great city"), read the book, and tell me it sounds like two different cities.

Even so, IIRC, the Revelation shows many seams that indicate sources have been used in a sense different than what they originally had.

Agreed. The solution may lie there somewhere.

[DCHindley]

Seems to me that multiple sources could have used the same phrase, only of different cities.

The common phrase "the great city" may be all that was necessary to have brought these two sources together.

Ben,

There can't be more than one "great city"?

Sure, but put the definite article back in ("the great city"), read the book, and tell me it sounds like two different cities.

Even so, IIRC, the Revelation shows many seams that indicate sources have been used in a sense different than what they originally had.

Agreed. The solution may lie there somewhere.