Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus Angry?

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iskander
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by iskander »

james_C wrote:Alexander/iskander , I think your jc was as racist as his dad in heaven. For gentile woman to be accepted in kingdom of Jesus, she had to accept her status as an animal and slave of Jewish racist children. Freedom to Palestine.
James_c


Jesus was only one of the sons of YHWH, every Israelite is a son of YHWH., the one YHWH who sent the dumb murderous Moses to torture the Egyptian population that had welcome them as refugees and made them wealthy.

They lived in a land of the many-gods in Egypt .Polytheism is an attitude that nurtures tolerance of strangers, , and the flourishing of art, literature and freedom of the human will.

This land of the pharaohs went through lean years and the descendants of those who had sought refuge in the land of Egypt decided to return back to the land of Canaan. An immense multitude with their god, wealth, and cattle moved out of the land of Egypt after inflicting great suffering on the people of that land.


YHWH is the model for every racist tyrant in that it allows any beast to say , YHWH made it holy!!!
Jesus was a son of YHWH and this explains your comment , but he wanted a better deal from YHWH for the master race : he wanted a new contract .

PS Freedom to Palestine
james_C
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by james_C »

The oppressor terrorist is telling me about terrorism. next time Palestinian drops phosphorous gas, drops bombs from the sky on unborn and infants, then tell me about terrorism. Freedom to palestine
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JoeWallack
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
"Mark's" (author) undisputed description of Jesus as angry at the end of the Galilean mission:

3:5

Greek English
καὶ And
περιβλεψάμενος having looked around on
αὐτοὺς them
μετ’ with
ὀργῆς anger
συλλυπούμενος being grieved

Here, as opposed to 1:41, Jesus has a good reason to be angry:

3

4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful on the sabbath day to do good, or to do harm? to save a life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved at the hardening of their heart,
GMatthew, in copying the story from GMark, exorcises all of 3:5. GLuke exorcises all emotion of Jesus here, 6:10 "And he looked round about on them all". So if "Matthew"/"Luke" refused to show Jesus as angry when he had a good reason to be it stands to reason that they would also not show Jesus as angry (or even with any strong emotion) when he had no good reason to be angry.


Joseph

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JoeWallack
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by JoeWallack »

james_C wrote:The oppressor terrorist is telling me about terrorism. next time Palestinian drops phosphorous gas, drops bombs from the sky on unborn and infants, then tell me about terrorism. Freedom to palestine
JW:
I know I said I would filter you after the 3rd time but this is impossible to Resistance:

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report ... nai-493614

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_ ... _on_Israel

Now you're filtered.


Joseph
iskander
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by iskander »

james_C wrote:The oppressor terrorist is telling me about terrorism. next time Palestinian drops phosphorous gas, drops bombs from the sky on unborn and infants, then tell me about terrorism. Freedom to palestine
hi James,
Resistance to oppression is classified as banditry or some similar word by the oppressor.

Palestinians have been murdered and robbed because YHWH had given the land to the Israelites. And we the Christian West have become the accomplice in this ugly deed .


Apparently ,today, there are only 77 " must do " commandments from YHWH and two of these are:

76. Zechiras Amaleik - To remember verbally what Amaleik did
77. Michiyas Amaleik - To destroy Amaleik

They teach to hate and to exterminate their assumed enemies forever and ever as a divine command!!!

PS Freedom to Palestine

Thousands march in Tel Aviv over demolition of Arab homes
Jewish, Arab protesters accuse officials of racism, incitement against minorities, say treatment vastly different to that of settlers during Amona evacuation
http://www.timesofisrael.com/thousands- ... -of-arabs/
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JoeWallack
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The Egerton Gospel

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Egerton Gospel
The Egerton Gospel (British Library Egerton Papyrus 2) refers to a collection of three papyrus fragments of a codex of a previously unknown gospel, found in Egypt and sold to the British Museum in 1934; the physical fragments are now dated to the very end of the 2nd century CE.
Excerpt courtesy of our own Ben Smith:

Egerton Gospel
15 \ became a l[eper.] If [th]erefore [you will,]
16 \ I will be cleansed." Then the L(or)d [said to him,]
17 \ "I will; be cleansed." [And immediately]
18 the lep[rosy] went \ [a]way from him. And Je(sus)
19 [says] to him, \ [?] G[o,] show [your−]
20 self \ to th[e priests]
21 and offer up [concerning the clea]ns- \
22 [í]ng as Mo(ses) com[m]a[nded and] \
23 s[í]n [n]o more [....] \
Parallels best with GMatthew:

8
2 And behold, there came to him a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
3 And he stretched forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou made clean. And straightway his leprosy was cleansed.
4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go, show thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
Note no "compassion" or "anger" above, same as GMatthew/GLuke. Egerton has text from all four Canonical Gospels but not necessarily much/anything distinctly Markan. If you think GMark was one of its sources than it is some evidence against "compassion" (and early).


Joseph

The Israeli/Arab Conflict - The London Conference - 1939
iskander
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by iskander »

FransJVermeiren wrote:The leper as an expulsed community member

I believe it is interesting to confront Mark 1:40-45 (‘The Cleansing of a Leper’) with Josephus’ description of the Essenes (War II:120-161) and with a passage from Dalits in Early Buddhism by Paramanshi Jaideva.

Josephus on the expulsion of Essenes from the community:
(143) Men convicted of major offenses are expelled from the order; and the ejected individual often comes to a most miserable end; for being bound by their oaths and customs, he is not allowed to share other men’s food and so he is forced to eat grass, his starved body wastes away and he dies of starvation. (144) This has led them out of a compassion to take many offenders back at their last gasp, since they feel that men tortured to the point of death have paid a sufficient penalty for their misdeeds.

On p. 170 of Dalits in Early Buddhism, the Encyclopedia of Religion of Ethics is quoted on the expulsion prevalent in caste-system:
For the minor violation of the rules of the tribe and its preventions, a sort of purification function is arranged and the tribe members are given a treat. But for the serious crimes or impudence, one is excommunicated from the caste, that is, the members of that tribe have no relation with the punished member. Neither anyone eats food with him, nor does he smoke nor talk with him. The people remain aloof from him just as they do from a leper and his life becomes so miserable that he becomes ready to accept any condition.

I think we can interpret Mark 1:40-45 against this background. A punished Essene, a leper, comes in despair to the Essene priest Jesus, who abolishes his punishment of expulsion (‘he was made clean’). This way he overrules the decision of another Essene priest. The expulsed man is asked to show himself to that priest. It looks as if Jesus is challenging the authority of that other priest, who is too hard-hearted in his opinion. Jesus also asks the man to make an offering for his reintegration in the community.

As Josephus speaks of compassion as motive for the reintegration of punished community members, I believe that the word for compassion in Mark 1:41 is authentic. Anger can have a place in this situation too, but only in a secondary way: maybe Jesus is angry at the other priest because he has protracted a harsh punishment for too long.
How could anyone be certain that the words we read in the final edition of a canonical book are the exact replica of what Jesus said ( or anyone in ancient history)?

This is the problem as presented by Professor Ehrman long ago.
Text and Tradition: The Role of New Testament Manuscripts in Early Christian Studies
The Kenneth W. Clark Lectures
Duke Divinity School
1997
Lecture One: Text and Interpretation: The Exegetical Significance of the "Original" Text
Bart D. Ehrman
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
"

7. We have, of course, come a long way since Mill. Today we have over fifty times as many
MSS as he had--at last count, there were upwards of 5300 complete or fragmentary Greek
copies--not to mention the thousands of MSS attesting the early translations of the NT into
Latin, Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Georgian, Old Slavonic, etc., and the many
thousands of quotations of the NT by church authors of the first few hundred years. What is
particularly striking is that among the 5300+ Greek copies of the NT, with the exception of
the smallest fragments, there are no two that are exactly alike in all their particulars.

8. No one knows for sure how many differences there are among our surviving witnesses,
simply because no one has yet been able to count them all. The best estimates put the number
at around 300,000, but perhaps it's better to put this figure in comparative terms. There are
more differences among our manuscripts than there are words in the NT. "


What do these putative first words tell us exactly?
Jesus may have changed his views during the time he started preaching until his death,. and therefore his first words on anything will not teach what he wanted his pupils to do and remember. It is the path walked by most reformers. Jesus come across as a vulnerable man resisting a merciless overseer.
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JoeWallack
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Continuing with Jesus getting Passionate (angry) in GMark:

10:14

Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology
3708 [e] idōn ἰδὼν having seen V-APA-NMS
1161 [e] de δὲ moreover, Conj
3588 [e] ho - Art-NMS
2424 [e] Iēsous Ἰησοῦς Jesus N-NMS
23 [e] ēganaktēsen ἠγανάκτησεν was indignant, V-AIA-3S

So for the 3rd time in GMark Jesus was angry. [sarcasm]Of course repeating a key word/point in GMark 3 times could have no significance what so ever.[/sarcasm] Yet again, the entire phrase above is exorcised by "Matthew"/"Luke". So while the source for GMatthew/GLuke appears to have described Jesus as angry 3 times, "Matthew"/"Luke" (authors) never describe Jesus as angry.

iskander, you should be more concerned with the previous verse and the real history of how modern Priests think of it than the fiction of what you think about "Rabbis" 2,000 years ago (even though everyone except apparently you agrees there was no such thing as "Rabbis" then).


Joseph

Review of Fundamentals of New Testament Textual Criticism by Stanley E. Porter and Andrew W. Pitts
iskander
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus An

Post by iskander »

Steven Avery wrote:
JoeWallack wrote: minimum of External evidence combined with The Difficult Reading Principle has the potential to be decisive in determining likely original.
So, in your world of being hostile to the New Testament

a) the less actual evidence you have, and
b) the more absurd and inconsistent is the reading

the more likely it is to be the authentic autograph.

Bizarro criticism.

Steven

This is the problem as presented by Professor Ehrman long ago in this lecture.
Text and Tradition: The Role of New Testament Manuscripts in Early Christian Studies
The Kenneth W. Clark Lectures
Duke Divinity School
1997
Lecture One: Text and Interpretation: The Exegetical Significance of the "Original" Text
Bart D. Ehrman
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
23. But one other issue must be emphasized before moving on. I've indicated that whereas Matthew and Luke have difficulty ascribing anger to Jesus, Mark has no problems at all doing so...

Matthew and Luke have difficulty ascribing anger to Jesus, Mark has no problems at all doing so. and like Mark neither have I .
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JoeWallack
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Re: Why Must You Be Such A Angry Young Man/Mark1:41 Jesus Angry?

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
A comparison of "Mark's" (author) angry Jesus:

Verse Setting Question Context Witness Reason for Jesus' Anger Commentary
1
39 And he went into their synagogues throughout all Galilee, preaching and casting out demons.
40 And there cometh to him a leper, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
41 And being moved with anger, he stretched forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou made clean.
Beginning of The Galilean Healing Ministry According to The Law you are supposed to avoid contact with lepers (Leviticus 13). The implication here in GMark is the leper knows this and therefore makes his request to Jesus conditional, if Jesus is willing to break The Law, Jesus can heal the leper. The leper has faith that Jesus can heal him. The leper lacks faith that Jesus is willing to break the Law. Leper/Healing Recipient The Leper/Healing Recipient lacks faith that Jesus is willing to break The Law in order to heal. "Mark" presents the story as a conflict between Ritual Law ("cleanliness") and Moral/Ethical Law (healing). "Mark's" Jesus is anachronistically presented as the champion of Moral/Ethical Law over Ritual Law ignoring The Jewish Prophets who had already been there and done that over 500 years before. So Jesus/Christianity is left in the ironic position that Jesus fictional enemies, The Pharisees, in reality already had this position and "Mark's" Gospel launched a Christianity that in reality became like the fictional Pharisees emphasizing ritual over morals and ethics.
3
1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there who had his hand withered.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man that had his hand withered, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful on the sabbath day to do good, or to do harm? to save a life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved at the hardening of their heart, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he stretched it forth; and his hand was restored.
6 And the Pharisees went out, and straightway with the Herodians took counsel against him, how they might destroy him.
Ending of The Galilean Healing Ministry According to The Law you are supposed to rest on the Sabbath. This time "Mark" explicitly identifies the context, The Ritual Law of resting on the Sabbath verses The Moral & Ethical Law of healing. The Pharisees The Pharisees choose Ritual Law over Moral/Ethical Law. Fellow Truth-speaker Ehrman likewise points out the many parallels between the stories here. Both stories have key issues of reaction to Jesus' healing in conflict with The Law. The Leper questions Jesus' willingness to break The Law and The Pharisees condemn it. "Mark's" irony hits a high point here with the Pharisee reaction to plan to murder Jesus. On the Sabbath! As Ehrman righteously notes, all the other parallels are strong Internal evidence that Jesus' anger also paralleled.


Ehrman also points out that the most common related Apology, as proffered here by iskander, is that the cause of Jesus' anger in 1:41 is/are The Pharisees/Judaism, but all of the related text only supports the leper as the cause and none of it supports The Pharisees/Judaism as the cause.


Joseph

Review of Daniel Wallace Mark 16:8 as the Conclusion to the Second Gospel - Greek Manuscript Evidence
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