KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

.
Thanks for your many thoughts, Charles. It seems that I need a little more time to check the material and order my thoughts on this.

Would you say this story is one of the examples that persuaded you that there is another story beyond the literal sense of the text. (just for the record: I agree that there are only insufficent interpretations.)
Charles Wilson wrote:Chapter 3:
A Foundational Story is given at the beginning of Chapter 3, "The Man with the Withered Hand". Take as much time as you need to examine this Story to see that another alternative to understanding "The Jesus Stories" exists here.
...
It validates the Suppositions and the "See-It-As" exercises Posted above. What does this sentence have to do with Healing of a Man with a Withered Hand? Use all of the Apologetix you wish. Go away and never read another word I write but realize that healing a man with a withered hand has nothing to do with saving life or killing. The purpose of this Story is found in the Verification of its meaning:
Charles Wilson
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Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

KK --

Thank you for your comments.

Compare "The Man with the Withered Hand" to "The Woman Bent Over for 18 Years":

Luke 13: 11 - 13 (RSV):

[11] And there was a woman who had had a spirit of infirmity for eighteen years; she was bent over and could not fully straighten herself.
[12] And when Jesus saw her, he called her and said to her, "Woman, you are freed from your infirmity."
[13] And he laid his hands upon her, and immediately she was made straight, and she praised God.

There is a similar Form to these two Stories. We also are given the amount of Time that the Woman has been bent over: 18 years. We want to shy away from Numeric Nuttery whenever possible but if a plausible date for this could be found, we might have evidence that the Subject of the Stories was not a "Jesus" but someone else - "From the fact that the "Jesus Stories" were written from Sources, it does not follow that the Source Stories were about "Jesus"."

The Form is:
1. Affliction
2. Jesus has a word or two with the 2 Subjects.
3. Jesus heals the Afflicted with words. In the "Woman..." Story, he lays his hands on her, a probable religious Symbolism at work. In the "Withered Hand..." the Display is to accuse the Pharisees of a Crime.

We are getting to the Mishmarot Priesthood and the Temple Rotation (Later, later, later...). Is there some date that gives a plausible reason for the "18 Years"? (We are at the moment of "Jarius' Daughter" and "The Woman with the 12 Year Issue of Blood" in the Post just above)

It can be shown that Herod finishes the Cloisters in 10 BCE.

Josephus, Ant..., 15, 11, 6:

"But the temple itself was built by the priests in a year and six months; upon which all the people were full of joy; and presently they returned thanks, in the first place, to God; and in the next place, for the alacrity the king had showed. They feasted and celebrated this rebuilding of the temple: and for the king, he sacrificed three hundred oxen to God, as did the rest every one according to his ability; the number of which sacrifices is not possible to set down, for it cannot be that we should truly relate it; for at the same time with this celebration for the work about the temple fell also the day of the king's inauguration, which he kept of an old custom as a festival, and it now coincided with the other, which coincidence of them both made the festival most illustrious..."

So if you celebrate the "Work of the Temple", you celebrate the Ascension of Herod. This places the "Woman Bent Over" at 8/9 CE. This is seen very consistently as a Time Marker for these Stories. When I get back to finishing the above Post on "Jairus' Daughter", we shall see that the Author(s) of these Stories knew Mishmarot. They wrote with INTENTIONALITY.

There will be one Last Call to Glory. It is at the Passover of 9 CE. The Priest will leave his home in Jabnit/Meiron and march to Jerusalem. He tells the Scribes that they are free to write about what they know but were prevented from telling. He tells the people that they are not bound by Herod and the Herodian followers or the Romans anymore. This isn't about Jesus. It's a Blood Feud for the Life and Death of Judea - and Israel.

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Charles Wilson
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Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

I want to simply state the Event that reflects the problem:

Josephus, War..., 2, 1, 3:

"At these the whole multitude were irritated, and threw stones at many of the soldiers, and killed them; but the tribune fled away wounded, and had much ado to escape so. After which they betook themselves to their sacrifices, as if they had done no mischief; nor did it appear to Archelaus that the multitude could be restrained without bloodshed; so he sent his whole army upon them, the footmen in great multitudes, by the way of the city, and the horsemen by the way of the plain, who, falling upon them on the sudden, as they were offering their sacrifices, destroyed about three thousand of them; but the rest of the multitude were dispersed upon the adjoining mountains: these were followed by Archelaus's heralds, who commanded every one to retire to their own homes, whither they all went, and left the festival.

It is the High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread that follows. Only, there is no High Sabbath here. It has all been cancelled by the Death of the 3000+. The Nation is commanded by God to observe these Days and the Holy Days have been cancelled. This, of course, is the Temple Slaughter of 4 BCE.

The Nation is Unclean.

It takes a deeper understanding to see how the Priesthood is involved and what happened on this Day. It is a Coup from the Priesthood itself that triggers these events. The Priests who follow believe that it is only the Priesthood who can Cleanse the Temple and make it Clean again.
Charles Wilson
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Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

Chapters 1 - 6 form a Set. At the end of Chapter 6, we find the results of the Conflagration. Earlier, "Jesus" gets into the boat (Antonia) and stops the storm by commanding it to cease. Here, "Jesus" comes out and the people recognize him and bring all of the injured to him - They couldn't have done that earlier?

Chapter 6 in its entirety requires Analysis. Alas, this cannot happen now...

Chapter 6:

[12] So they went out and preached that men should repent.
[13] And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them.
...
[30] The apostles returned to Jesus, and told him all that they had done and taught.

Makes sense to me. The "Herodias" Passage has Clues but...another day.

[34] As he went ashore he saw a great throng, and he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd; and he began to teach them many things.
[35] And when it grew late, his disciples came to him and said, "This is a lonely place, and the hour is now late

What was it Yogi Berra said? "Nobody ever goes to that restaurant, it's too crowded." This Section is almost certainly from the Original Source and yet it has been extensively rewritten and Transvalued.

[45] Immediately he made his disciples get into the boat and go before him to the other side, to Beth-sa'ida, while he dismissed the crowd.

We are getting very SERIOUS at this point. This is the Description of the Temple Slaughter from the "Inside". The Disciples are ordered into the Boat and go before him to the "Other Side". Slightly opaque, they are to go through the Passageway to "Bethsaida". If this is at or near the Temple, there should be a place that sounds similar to "Bethsaida" and there is: "Bezetha".

Then, a key phrase: "...while he dismissed the crowd." The Slaughter is about to begin.

[46] And after he had taken leave of them, he went up on the mountain to pray.
[47] And when evening came, the boat was out on the sea, and he was alone on the land.
[48] And he saw that they were making headway painfully, for the wind was against them. And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them,
[49] but when they saw him walking on the sea they thought it was a ghost, and cried out;
[50] for they all saw him, and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
[51] And he got into the boat with them and the wind ceased. And they were utterly astounded,
[52] for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened.

"And after he had taken leave of them, he went up on the mountain to pray.
And when evening came, the boat was out on the sea, and he was alone on the land.

There is Story Compression here, evidence of the rewrite. "When evening came..." This is not even questioned since it is "Jesus" who could be alone when surrounded by huge crowds.
"...the boat was out on the sea" The Key Moment is that the Priest character is SEPARATED from the Boat. That is what is important:

Josephus, War..., 2, 1, 2 and 3:

"And here it was that a great many of those that desired innovations came in crowds towards the evening, and began then to mourn on their own account, when the public mourning for the king was over. These lamented those that were put to death by Herod, because they had cut down the golden eagle that had been over the gate of the temple. Nor was this mourning of a private nature, but the lamentations were very great, the mourning solemn, and the weeping such as was loudly heard all over the city, as being for those men who had perished for the laws of their country, and for the temple...
...
At these clamors Archelaus was provoked, but restrained himself from taking vengeance on the authors, on account of the haste he was in of going to Rome, as fearing lest, upon his making war on the multitude, such an action might detain him at home. Accordingly, he made trial to quiet the innovators by persuasion, rather than by force, and sent his general in a private way to them, and by him exhorted them to be quiet. But the seditious threw stones at him, and drove him away, as he came into the temple, and before he could say any thing to them. The like treatment they showed to others, who came to them after him, many of which were sent by Archelaus, in order to reduce them to sobriety, and these answered still on all occasions after a passionate manner; and it openly appeared that they would not be quiet, if their numbers were but considerable. And indeed, at the feast of unleavened bread, which was now at hand, and is by the Jews called the Passover, and used to he celebrated with a great number of sacrifices, an innumerable multitude of the people came out of the country to worship; some of these stood in the temple bewailing the Rabbins...At these the whole multitude were irritated, and threw stones at many of the soldiers, and killed them; but the tribune fled away wounded, and had much ado to escape so. After which they betook themselves to their sacrifices, as if they had done no mischief; nor did it appear to Archelaus that the multitude could be restrained without bloodshed; so he sent his whole army upon them, the footmen in great multitudes, by the way of the city, and the horsemen by the way of the plain, who, falling upon them on the sudden, as they were offering their sacrifices, destroyed about three thousand of them.

NOTE (Too important to be left out): I omitted the sentence about "obtaining sustenance by begging...". The Whiston Translation is grossly deficient to the understanding here. Thackaray is so much better. The Insurrectionists are OBTAINING RECRUITS FOR THEIR FACTION IN THE TEMPLE, not begging for food. This is the meaning of the youth who has his linen garment torn off. He is a Recruit and the Death of 3000+ is occurring at that moment. The Recruit runs...

Edit Note 2: The underlined sentences show that MANY persuaders were sent to "Quiet your Disciples, Teacher" (Luke). Realize that this takes TIME. If the "Persuasion" begins in the Evening, it would take hours to complete before a decision was made to order the soldiers - to about the Fourth Watch, I would assert...

[48] And he saw that they were making headway painfully, for the wind was against them. And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them

The murder of 3000+ is beginning. Antonia is the only place of safety and the doors have been shut.
*IMPORTANT* One of the Major Themes in this Section of Mark is the "Fourth Watch". It is a Roman Military term since the Jewish Watches numbered three. It IS important to the Authors of the Original - "Could you not stay awake for one more hour?" "Watch, I tell you and I tell everyone. WATCH...". The Collapse of the Insurrection occurs where the Roman Watch would have had fresh eyes, from the Insurrectionist's POV.

"...And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them"

PLease read this carefully (I'm beggin' you!): The Priest "...meant to pass them by". WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? "Jesus" is walking on the sea and he means to walk past them? Walk past them to the other side of the Boat, in a raging storm? NO! Does "I like the door on the other side of the Boat" make sense? No. Then...What? The meaning is given in the next sentence:

[49] but when they saw him walking on the sea they thought it was a ghost, and cried out;
[50] for they all saw him, and were terrified.

"They thought it was a ghost..." Good Jews don't believe in ghosts. It is taught early on to never engage in necromancy. This is shorthand, a manner of speaking (A rewrite!). They might believe they possibly have seen a ghost because the Priest they see should already be DEAD. Everyone has been hacked to bits in the Melee. EVERYONE. It is near the End of the Death. From somewhere above in Antonia, the people (Disciples...and one other) see the Priest. The Priest is trying to find a way, ANY way, into the Boat. He suddenly finds himself in the Boat and attempts to calm them. Something is missing here.

HOW DID HE GET INTO THE BOAT?

[53] And when they had crossed over, they came to land at Gennes'aret, and moored to the shore.
[54] And when they got out of the boat, immediately the people recognized him,
[55] and ran about the whole neighborhood and began to bring sick people on their pallets to any place where they heard he was.
[56] And wherever he came, in villages, cities, or country, they laid the sick in the market places, and besought him that they might touch even the fringe of his garment; and as many as touched it were made well.

"And when they got out of the boat, immediately the people recognized him"

This after the Death, at morning. The Priest and the Disciples go out to see 3000+ bodies. The people could have been healed at any time prior to this. Therefore, the Tableau presented is a rewrite, a rewrite to cover up the carnage.

Remember? "And there was a man with a withered hand..."

"...and ran about the whole neighborhood and began to bring sick people on their pallets to any place where they heard he was.
And wherever he came, in villages, cities, or country, they laid the sick in the market places, and besought him that they might touch even the fringe of his garment; and as many as touched it were made well. "

Remember? "...For she said, "If I touch even his garments, I shall be made well." "

Thousands have died. Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread have been cancelled. It is not a record of a Miracle Story, it cannot be. Yet, even the Story of Death will be rewritten as a Story to the Glory of Jesus.

How did the Priest get into the Boat? If this is indeed the Story of a Mass Murder, how did this person survive? How did Vonnegut survive the Firebombing of Dresden. The plane carrying Snowden and Yossarian should have been blasted from the sky. Yossarian lived. Snowden, clothed in white, died. How does this happen?

Chapter 6 marks the end of a Set of Stories of the Priesthood. If I should continue, I will first examine why I believe the Passover Slaughter is mapped into the NT, for it must be shown that there is more than a reasonable chance that this is a Story of the Priesthood and it is THE Story of a particular Group of Priests. This can be done.

I invite comment and questions.

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Charles Wilson
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Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

How did he get into the Boat?

Look at the Story just above in Mark 6 about The Squall:

Mark 6: 45 - 51 (RSV):

[45] Immediately he made his disciples get into the boat and go before him to the other side, to Beth-sa'ida, while he dismissed the crowd.
[46] And after he had taken leave of them, he went up on the mountain to pray.
[47] And when evening came, the boat was out on the sea, and he was alone on the land.
[48] And he saw that they were making headway painfully, for the wind was against them. And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them,
[49] but when they saw him walking on the sea they thought it was a ghost, and cried out;
[50] for they all saw him, and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear."
[51] And he got into the boat with them and the wind ceased. And they were utterly astounded,

Matthew tells us the Rest of the Story, starting **almost** word for word with Mark.
But Wait!!! There's more!!!...:

Matthew 14: 28 - 30 (RSV):

[28] And Peter answered him, "Lord, if it is you, bid me come to you on the water."
[29] He said, "Come." So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus;
[30] but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, "Lord, save me."
[31] Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, "O man of little faith, why did you doubt?"

Who knew that this was a Story about Peter?!??. So, how did the Priest get into the Boat?

Peter. It was Peter who saved the Priest. How do we know? Peter is a child. He may have been the Youth in Linen. He does, however, see the Priest who should be dead. Moments earlier, he was denying "Jesus" inside the door where outside, 3000 are dying (NOTE: You would have denied "Jesus" as well. Jesus would have denied Jesus...). Peter knows, however, of a small door with a narrow Passageway that leads to the Realm of Heaven. Twelve years later, somone asks the Priest questions. He will answer:

Luke 13: 22-24 (RSV):

[22] He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
[23] And some one said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them,
[24] "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Matthew 18: 2 - 4 (RSV):

[2] And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them,
[3] and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
[4] Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

The door is so small that you must turn as a child to enter and navigate the Passage and only a few are saved.

This is the Great Irony. You must be a Priest without Blemish to enter the Realm of Heaven and yet at the end of the Massacre, only a few get into the Realm of Heaven and many of those are now wounded:

Mark 9: 43 - 48 (RSV):

[43] And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
[45] And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.
[47] And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,
[48] where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

There is a consistent Story here and it is the Story of Peter and the Priest. All that remains is to show that Peter and the Priest are of the Mishmarot Priesthood and that this is described in the NT and, even though hidden, pays homage to the House of Eleazar, the Hasmoneans and those who demanded the Return of the Reign of God.

WHO???...
Charles Wilson
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Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

Chapter 7 and on.

I stated earlier that Chapters 1 - 6 comprise a Set of Stories built around the Temple Slaughter of 4 BCE. As I began "Filtering" the later chapters, I went through chapter after chapter, on through about Chapter 13. Very little material from 4 BCE and Jerusalem Passover presented itself! Therefore, it appears that Mark can be divided into the Source Materials that made it into the Coherent Piece that it is.

Chapter 7 has mostly Roman material, with Vespasian and Titus featured. In passing, there is one intriguing Passage. The Syrophoenician Woman MAY reference Jannaeus but any interpretation is suspect at this point.

Chapter 8:

[10] And he sent them away; and immediately he got into the boat with his disciples, and went to the district of Dalmanu'tha.

Vic Alexander is developing an Aramaic Translation that translates "Dalmanutha" as "Land of Oppression" - "It's where the Pharisees live"! A nice Joke.

There is much in Chapter 8 that can be deciphered but little, if any, concerning the Passover of 4 BCE.

Chapter 9:

[1] And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power."

This could be from either 4 BCE or 9 CE, probably 9. The Priesthood will Rule again.

[2] And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain apart by themselves; and he was transfigured before them,

Curious. "Six Days" is found in GJohn anticipating Passover, when "Jesus" becomes Unclean with the Dead Lazarus. However, I don't want to fall into a Trap here, so I note it and move on.

[33] And they came to Caper'na-um; and when he was in the house he asked them, "What were you discussing on the way?"
[34] But they were silent; for on the way they had discussed with one another who was the greatest.
[35] And he sat down and called the twelve; and he said to them, "If any one would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all."
[36] And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them,
[37] "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me."

We saw a variant of this above concerning "...turning as a child" to get into the Realm of Heaven. This passage is heavily Transvalued and the meaning is Interpolated by the Reader. It is a Clue as to the Nature of the Original Source for the 4 BCE Passover. The Social Contract MAY be apparent here, though this is not the important point. The children of the Priests who visited the Realm of Heaven may have been "The Least". The children would then be "The Servents to all" as they learn their "Trade" in anticipation of becoming Priests.

The Key to understanding this is to see that there were indeed TWO STORIES, TWO PASSOVERS, one in 4 BCE and one in 9 CE.

"Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me"

This is 12 years after the Passover of 4 BCE. This could either be the Priest or Peter and I am inclined to "See-It-As" the Priest. Peter saves the Priest as the child who came out of Antonia at the end of the Death. The Priest should be DEAD. Is "...in my name..." an Interpolation from a Redactor? If so, then it is Peter who is stating this: "Whoever receives one such child receives ME", ie, Peter. - 12 years later, "whoever receives me receives not me but him who sent me. If "...in my name" tells of Peter's getting to the Priest and telling that "I can get you into the Realm of Heaven" or the like, then, under the Authority of the Priesthood, it is the Priest who utters "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me" .

"and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me"

If this is Peter, then it was someone in Antonia who allowed a child to run to the Priest. This reading is possible (Later!) but it is more likely the Priest and the person who sent the Priest was Jairus. The foot washing of GJohn finds a man obsessd with clean feet and it is Peter who gets his feet washed.

[49] For every one will be salted with fire.
[50] Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its saltness, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another."

This comes from the Approach to Jerusalem in 8/9 CE. "Please retain the Zeal and Outrage you had when you faced the Death 12 years ago." The Priest knows that he will face Death and he is begging for support. For the most par, he won't get it.

Chapter 10:

[23] And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!"
[24] And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
[25] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

I've always been fond of the "Easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle" Crowd but...Never mind. YOU CANNOT BE FAT to get through the Narrow door! Peter first (The Least), the Priest next (The First).

[46] And they came to Jericho; and as he was leaving Jericho with his disciples and a great multitude, Bartimae'us, a blind beggar, the son of Timae'us, was sitting by the roadside.

A Herod Footnote. Herod goes to Jericho at his death. The rest of this may be Titus but Herod is away from Jerusalem a few weeks before Passover. What did that Priest do in Jericho?

[27] And they came again to Jerusalem. And as he was walking in the temple, the chief priests and the scribes and the elders came to him,
[28] and they said to him, "By what authority are you doing these things, or who gave you this authority to do them?"
[29] Jesus said to them, "I will ask you a question; answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things.
[30] Was the baptism of John from heaven or from men? Answer me."
[31] And they argued with one another, "If we say, `From heaven,' he will say, `Why then did you not believe him?'
[32] But shall we say, `From men'?" -- they were afraid of the people, for all held that John was a real prophet.
[33] So they answered Jesus, "We do not know." And Jesus said to them, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things."

By the information given about John and Jerusalem, this should be from 4 BCE. When was John murdered? Ahhh, this is deeper than appears. There is also missing information. The Chief Priests and Scribes KNOW who John was. John was a Priest of Bilgah and if there is one thing the "Chief Priests" should know about, it's Mishmarot. This is therefore a False Story, with severe rewrites and Transvaluation. This may also be "John, son of John". The Priest who survived may have been wanted "Dead or Alive" but he returned in 9 CE and Everyone Knows.

Mark 12:

[1] And he began to speak to them in parables. "A man planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a pit for the wine press, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country.
[2] When the time came, he sent a servant to the tenants, to get from them some of the fruit of the vineyard.
[3] And they took him and beat him, and sent him away empty-handed.
[4] Again he sent to them another servant, and they wounded him in the head, and treated him shamefully.
[5] And he sent another, and him they killed; and so with many others, some they beat and some they killed.
[6] He had still one other, a beloved son; finally he sent him to them, saying, `They will respect my son.'
[7] But those tenants said to one another, `This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.'
[8] And they took him and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
[9] What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the tenants, and give the vineyard to others.

The Temple and Antonia. Build your own Symbolism.

[17] Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at him.

Big Joke here! "Who wrote this?" Caesar already owns everything. I wouldn't ordinarily put this into a Study of the 4 BCE Passover but...

Chapter 13:

This Chapter is without doubt a rewrite of Alexander Jannaeus and his near death at the hands of the Greek General Demetrius Eucerus (Let the reader note this). It does not have anything to do with the Passovers. IT IS TIED TO THE PASSOVERS IN REVELATION with the King (Jannaeus) and the Lamb (The Mishmarot Group Immer). Jehoiarib (The Alpha) and Immer (The Omega) of the House of Eleazar, 1 Chronicles 24.

[33] Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.
[34] It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch.
[35] Watch therefore -- for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning --
[36] lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
[37] And what I say to you I say to all: Watch."

Out of nowhere comes this and have no doubt, it is concerned most directly with the 4 BCE Passover. The Watch that was Set to warn the Priests if there was any Trouble has failed. The Authors of the Original Source here lament the 3 Watches of the Jewish Warriors verses the 4 Watches of the Romans. When the soldiers are ordered to kill everyone, it is too late to prevent and Atrocity.

Notice that there is extreme Tension here. The "Jesus" character is both "Asleep in the stern of the boat" and attempting to calm his disciples as he gets into the boat. It cannot be both ways. There are 2 Stories at work. They have been compressed into one.

Down the Home Stretch.

CW
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

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Hi Charles, I find it very difficult to write a comment on your interpretations. My own interest in the text of GMark is currently very different from yours. I try to read the text of GMark more and more on a very simple level. On the one hand, I find that this is not possible. On the other hand, I ignore this impossibility to better understand the places where it is impossible. You do more or less the opposite. I find it fascinating to see GMark from a completely different point of view. However, it is difficult for me to say something concrete about your interpretations of this or that verse. But I will certainly come back to it. At the moment, I only learn how you see and interpret things.

Greetings Kunigunde
Charles Wilson
Posts: 2100
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

Thanx, KK --

I hope to finish this Iteration of Mark in a few days. I'm still learning things. This time, with "only" the Passover filter, it was very obvious ("to me...") that this Story was confined, for the most part, to the first 6 chapters. Combined with the subject matter of Mark 13, for example, you can see what was taken, what was left and how it was combined.

More to come, I hope.

Thanx,

CW
Charles Wilson
Posts: 2100
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

Chapter 14:

As we get to the Empty Tomb, the Literary part of Mark finds an added Tension and a resumption of the Passover Stories. Which Passover are these Passages written about?

[1] It was now two days before the Passover and the feast of Unleavened Bread. And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to arrest him by stealth, and kill him;

Which Passover? 4 BCE or 9 CE?

[2] for they said, "Not during the feast, lest there be a tumult of the people."

Jay Raskin has some very fine Analysis on this. "Not during the Feast..." yet when did it happen? Was there a tumult? If this is 4 BCE then there certainly was. What happened if this occurred in 9 CE...?

[3] And while he was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head.
[4] But there were some who said to themselves indignantly, "Why was the ointment thus wasted?
[5] For this ointment might have been sold for more than three hundred denarii, and given to the poor." And they reproached her.
[6] But Jesus said, "Let her alone; why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me.
[7] For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you will, you can do good to them; but you will not always have me.
[8] She has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand for burying.
[9] And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is preached in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her."

I have this identified as Salome attending to Jannaeus in his last days. He had a Quartain Ague, a parasitic disease. He has pickled his liver. Odor problem? Anyway, I believe it is Salome and Jannaeus. I welcome any other Interpretation.

[12] And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the passover lamb, his disciples said to him, "Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the passover?"
[13] And he sent two of his disciples, and said to them, "Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him,
[14] and wherever he enters, say to the householder, `The Teacher says, Where is my guest room, where I am to eat the passover with my disciples?'
[15] And he will show you a large upper room furnished and ready; there prepare for us."
[16] And the disciples set out and went to the city, and found it as he had told them; and they prepared the passover.

Incredible Problem here with the Holy Days in verse 12.

Verse 13 is written to confuse. This has the appearance of a "Miracle!" but may be something else. Perhaps it is a shadow that moves in the spring at Passover to a door. The shadow appears as a "man carrying a water jar". There has been all sorts of analysis concerning this: "Men didn't carry water", etc., etc., etc. but a more pedestrian view is never considered. I think it was a shadow but someone more creative than I might have a better idea.

[27] And Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away; for it is written, `I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'
[28] But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee."

When you are committed to "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" you stare at the words attempting to fit something, ANYTHING that will explain this. The first part of the answer is simple. The "Jesus Character", in reality a Priest, has a Settlement assigned to him (Elizur, Leibner). This gets to the Literary Understanding of Mark. Someone knows of the Mishmarot Priesthood and its workings. If Mark is purely a Literary Creation, the Story is written around a Priest and a child who travel to Jerusalem from the assigned Settlements (Jabnit and Meiron, as it turns out). After the assigned week of Mishmarot Service the Priest will "...go before you to Galilee". Simple!

If this is written as a History, you will find nothing "on the ground" to contradict this. This is not final - Moby Dick has excruciating detail about whaling ships, etc. Does that mean there was a Captain Ahab in real life who...etc.? No.

[27] And Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away; for it is written, `I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

This verse is Literary and it is so "Literary" that it has convinced people of its Reality. In fact, it is a Marker to the Really Real part of the Story: The Mishmarot Priesthood. This verse is a Word Play.

Look at http://lovewins.us/bible/strongs/H563 , Hebrew for "Lamb". Immar. Toggle to the next word, H564. Immer, "The Sixteenth Mishmarot Service Group". These words are identical in the Hebrew. The Greek is "Arnion" and the Word Play in Hebrew is completely lost.

" אמּר " "Lamb" and "Immer".

Question: Which Mishmarot Group was on Duty for the 4 BCE and 9 CE Passovers? That would be "Immer".

John 1: 29 - 30 (RSV):

[29] The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
[30] This is he of whom I said, `After me comes a man who ranks before me, for he was before me.'

The Mishmarot Group Bilgah has committed an Offense against the Priesthood ( http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3298-bilgah ). It's Ring has been nailed down and its closet sealed, hence the Joke in GJohn. John is of Bilgah. The "Jesus Character" is of Immer.

The NT is built THEREFORE on the Story of a Mishmarot Priest and a child who comes to us as Peter.

[27] And Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away; for it is written, `I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'
[28] But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee."
[29] Peter said to him, "Even though they all fall away, I will not."
[30] And Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you, this very night, before the cock crows twice, you will deny me three times."
[31] But he said vehemently, "If I must die with you, I will not deny you." And they all said the same.

This is Stoyrtelling! This is from the 4 BCE Passover and it is Postdiction. The Redactors know what is to happen and Peter is left "holding the bag". Put the Story together: As Archelaus leaves to Party-Big-Time, a loud Mourning begins as people stream in from the Countryside (From outhouse: The Jerusalem Rulers are Hellenized, the Oppressed People from the Countryside are rushing in...). The Priests, unknown apparently to Josephus, are beginning the Sacrifices that will bring God to stand by them and evict the Herodians and Romans.

Hours pass and an Order is given to send in the soldiers to kill everyone. The Order is laid at the feet of Archelaus but this is not convincing.

Peter finds himself inside the mightly door of Antonia as the Murder begins. Inside: SAFETY. Outside: DEATH. What does Peter say and do?

[37] And he came and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter, "Simon, are you asleep? Could you not watch one hour?

I believe that there is a deeper Story here, between the Watch of the Jewish Fighters and the Watch of the Roman Legions. Jewish fighters: 3 Watches. Romans: 4. The explicit language is "Could you not watch for 1 hour?" It may be deeper than that.

[51] And a young man followed him, with nothing but a linen cloth about his body; and they seized him

I stated earlier that this might be Peter. I don't believe that is correct. More probably the identity of the Recruit is nameless.

[69] And the maid saw him, and began again to say to the bystanders, "This man is one of them."
[70] But again he denied it. And after a little while again the bystanders said to Peter, "Certainly you are one of them; for you are a Galilean."

An On-The-Ground Historical Nugget. Matthew 26 has:

[73] After a little while the bystanders came up and said to Peter, "Certainly you are also one of them, for your accent betrays you."

This is not proof that the Story is strictly Historical but is an indicator that the Source is about something Other-Historical: It is not a "Jesus" story but is about something else. If it is Historical, the Redactors don't get the reference.

[74] Then he began to invoke a curse on himself and to swear, "I do not know the man." And immediately the cock crowed.

As if you needed to be reminded, a Murder of 3000+ is occurring on the other side of the door at which you are standing. You can agree that you were with the Galilean and die or you can lie and live. As I said earlier, YOU would have denied Jesus here. Jesus would have denied Jesus...

The Literary Part of the Original is coming to an End. A different Literary Device is about to be grafted onto the End and the Author-Who-Wrote -Markan-Chiasms may have gotten the Empty Tomb Section in time to write his part in his style. The end of Mark is approaching but not the end of the evidence of the Story of the Passover Slaughter of 4 BCE.
Charles Wilson
Posts: 2100
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: KK: The Story, as Best I Can

Post by Charles Wilson »

Chapter 15, 16 and beyond:

Chapter 15:

[1] And as soon as it was morning...

Which morning? I know that it's the Story's "...which morning" but...which morning?

"...and delivered him to Pilate"

Well, no, but that's for another day.

[6] Now at the feast he used to release for them one prisoner for whom they asked.

I interrupt his Markan Exposition on the Passover of 4 BCE to bring you this... This one is probably tied to the story in Josephus about some Parthian-Nobodies who send their child to Rome Boarding School and, when their King goes missing, ask for the kid back so he can, ya' know, Rule and stuff. Fun read.

[16] And the soldiers led him away inside the palace (that is, the praetorium); and they called together the whole battalion.
[17] And they clothed him in a purple cloak, and plaiting a crown of thorns they put it on him.
[18] And they began to salute him, "Hail, King of the Jews!"
[19] And they struck his head with a reed, and spat upon him, and they knelt down in homage to him.

When the "Whole Battalion" is called, you are talking about the Legions taking an oath on an Emperor. This may be another "Vitellius takes It in the Chops Moment ("How'ya doin Asiaticus?")".

[24] And they crucified him, and divided his garments among them, casting lots for them, to decide what each should take.

One more aside: You cannot understand the Historical - and Roman - side of the NT until you compare this with the version in GJohn. In GJohn, one of the garments is a Linen Cuirass. This is Historical, not Religious.

[29] And those who passed by derided him, wagging their heads, and saying, "Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days

That is, "Destroy the Herodian and Roman Rule on Wednesday and we will Re-Dedicate the Temple on Saturday".

[34] And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "E'lo-i, E'lo-i, la'ma sabach-tha'ni?" which means, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Many of the Aramaic Translations have, "My God, my God, for this was I spared?". It makes *Perfect Sense" in the Framework given of a Priest who was saved by a Miracle, only to be Crucified 12 years later.

[39] And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that he thus breathed his last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!"

The End.
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