On parallels between AoI and Revelation

[Giuseppe]

Assuming that the docetic Birth of the AoI is part of the original version, where does it happen probably, on the earth or in heaven?

I see that there are some similarities between AoI and Revelation insofar both assume:

1) a Birth from a mother

2) the child is hidden to escape to Satan

3) Satan kills the Son (still without knowing him: probably so also in Revelation).

4) the Son is revealed post-mortem and the Parousia is near.

[Giuseppe]

It should be clear why in Revelation Satan doesn't know Jesus when he is crucified. If he had known Jesus during the crucifixion, then there would be no need by the mother to escape Satan at the moment of the Birth to save the little Son.

Satan knew that the Son was born, but he doesn't think that the crucified victim was just him.

[Giuseppe]

Note that in AoI Satan doesn't even know about the birth of the Son. Or, if he knows that Mary had a son, he didn't see the birth as docetic, but thought about it as a normal birth of a mere man.

In other terms, the first ''historicist'' was Satan (!).

[iskander]

very interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qf6Sv3A9zs

[Giuseppe]

So Parvus:

Your memory is correct. In the 8th post in the series I laid out a speculative scenario in which the Beloved descended to earth itself for only the few hours needed to get crucified. My enthusiasm for that scenario, however, has waned. That scenario could explain the hole in Paul’s letters regarding a public ministry and passion narrative for Jesus, but it seems to me the hole would be just as well accounted for if Paul knew one of the extant versions of the Vision of Isaiah.

At present I am inclined to bet on the Ethiopic version, even with its longer chapter 11 that includes the docetic birth scene. Paul’s knowledge of that strange narrative could explain why he does not use the more natural word for “born” in Gal. 4:4. The Vision’s docetic Son could be said to “come of a woman” without really being “born” of her. And the tenuous way Galatians connects Jesus with the Law (“come of a woman, come under the Law”) again seems to make sense if the Vision was Paul’s gospel. The Vision says nothing about the Law or the Son’s stance regarding it. So if Paul wanted to use it to bring both Jesus and the Law onto the same stage, the “coming” of Jesus by way of a Jewish mother was pretty much the only way to go.

http://vridar.org/2013/12/31/a-simonian ... ment-82197

[iskander]

Cherchez la femme once more!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=427

Galatians 4:4
"But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law"



Jesus is sent by God.

He is therefore very special, but he is not an angel or a spirit, but a man born of a woman like any other man

Jesus is a son of God, loved by God like a son and given the authority to do and change things

He is not an outsider, but one born under the same tradition and obligations as any other man: when he changes things he will do it with knowledge and out of love for Judaic and Gentiles alike.

Modern example:
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, Martin Luther, born of a woman, born under the law

PS . Contemporary example
But when the fullness of time had come, Brahma sent his Son, Mahatma Gandhi, born of a woman, born under the law
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=427
PS Re: Born of a woman, born under the law
by beowulf » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:12 pm
Paul is saying to converts and to those gentiles who may be considering conversion to Judaism that they do not need to obey the mosaic laws.

He was also saying to whoever was listening that Jews no longer needed to obey the mosaic laws to please God.

In general, he was also saying to posterity that God is better pleased by faith than by ritualistic behaviour and years later Luther liberated Catholics from the need to be forgiven by a priest and attending mass and much more.
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus, lost its power for all those men and women who believed the Reformers.

Christianity is far less stupid than Judaism. Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. Once the political power of the papacy was broken the Christian society enjoyed the full benefits of Paul's theology.

Galatians 4:4 is a beautiful statement
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=427&start=10