Christianity evolved from Judaism?

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A_Nony_Mouse
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Christianity evolved from Judaism?

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Perhaps that is religiously correct history. Lets us look at the facts.

Christianity is a creedal religion. Islam has two required beliefs, there is no god but god and Mohamed is his prophet. Christianity is swamped with required Creeds and "teachings" ignored on risk of damnation. Without question in ancient times there is nothing to indicate Judaism was other than a primitive ritual/taboo genital mutilating cult. Still today genital mutilation and adherence to the rituals and taboos is all that is required for conversion; there is not a required belief in sight.

How does creedal 'evolve' from ritual/taboo? Change from, yes. Claim an origin cult of its founder, yes. Evolve?

Yes Christians include the OT. The original usage of the OT was as a source of prophecies of their founder. Early on the Sybiline prophecies served the same purpose. Perhaps it was just an twist of fate that OT was adopted instead of the Sybilines or perhaps in addition to. A wag might suggest the OT was adopted for the absence of guilt tripping rules to violate in the NT.

The emphasis of moral behavior in Christianity is on the individual and consequences to the individual, quite Greek. In Judaism it is all actions of the individual for the benefit or detriment of the group. The Christian god strikes down the sinner. The Jewish god strikes down innocent family members and if the king screws up entire kingdom's worth of innocents. Evolution? From social primitive tribal to civilized perhaps but not an evolution of the religion.

[To my mind evolution of a religion is like ancient Judaism to modern ethical Judaism which is unfortunately absent from the majority Orthodox, the ancient version. For compare and contrast, I have noticed no evolution at all in Islam. I see an evolution in Christianity only in organizational structure, the invention of required beliefs and refinement of required beliefs, which are very few and that largely ended by the 6th c. ]

Being an old-timer I remember some time in the 70s when the term "Judeo-Christian" was popularized by the redneck Christian preachers. It was part of the invention of "Christian Zionist" and a consequence of the 67 and 73 wars. The popularization was the direct intrusion of OT into Christianity instead of the replacement theology of the previous 1800 years. Perhaps this can be traced to Darby's Chinese menu method of theology but I can't think of anything older which might be related to it.
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ficino
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Re: Christianity evolved from Judaism?

Post by ficino »

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Perhaps that is religiously correct history. Lets us look at the facts.



Being an old-timer I remember some time in the 70s when the term "Judeo-Christian" was popularized by the redneck Christian preachers. It was part of the invention of "Christian Zionist" and a consequence of the 67 and 73 wars. The popularization was the direct intrusion of OT into Christianity instead of the replacement theology of the previous 1800 years. Perhaps this can be traced to Darby's Chinese menu method of theology but I can't think of anything older which might be related to it.
Yes, I think those Israeli victories probably had something to do with the rising popularity of forms of dispensationalism. I think many older denominations held versions of the view that what refers to Israel in the Bible is fulfilled in the Church.
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A_Nony_Mouse
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Re: Christianity evolved from Judaism?

Post by A_Nony_Mouse »

ficino wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Perhaps that is religiously correct history. Lets us look at the facts.



Being an old-timer I remember some time in the 70s when the term "Judeo-Christian" was popularized by the redneck Christian preachers. It was part of the invention of "Christian Zionist" and a consequence of the 67 and 73 wars. The popularization was the direct intrusion of OT into Christianity instead of the replacement theology of the previous 1800 years. Perhaps this can be traced to Darby's Chinese menu method of theology but I can't think of anything older which might be related to it.
Yes, I think those Israeli victories probably had something to do with the rising popularity of forms of dispensationalism. I think many older denominations held versions of the view that what refers to Israel in the Bible is fulfilled in the Church.
Never fight a war. You never know what will happen. The Christian rednecks were so successful religious zionism started showing up in Israel with its current disastrous consequences. We cursed Israel one more time.

But yes ever since there was a Christian "explanation" of this subject it has always been Christians became the inheritors of the promises to Abraham and the Jews are out of the picture. I am unsuccessfully trying to recall a reference to this prior to the invention of theology.
The religion of the priests is not the religion of the people.
Priests are just people with skin in the game and an income to lose.
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Christianity evolved from Judaism?

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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Never fight a war. You never know what will happen. The Christian rednecks were so successful religious zionism started showing up in Israel with its current disastrous consequences. We cursed Israel one more time.
We don't need your politics or other colorful commentary here. If it's not "biblical criticism" or "history," there are better places for it.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Blood
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Re: Christianity evolved from Judaism?

Post by Blood »

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Being an old-timer I remember some time in the 70s when the term "Judeo-Christian" was popularized by the redneck Christian preachers. It was part of the invention of "Christian Zionist" and a consequence of the 67 and 73 wars. The popularization was the direct intrusion of OT into Christianity instead of the replacement theology of the previous 1800 years. Perhaps this can be traced to Darby's Chinese menu method of theology but I can't think of anything older which might be related to it.
It's fairly obvious that the term "Judeo-Christian" came into vogue after WWII in the USA as a gesture of atonement, i.e. "See, we Americans recognize the Jewish religion as part of our common heritage, and we're just going to pretend that we always have by using this term." Such an expression was rare among Christians in the USA prior to WWII.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp
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A_Nony_Mouse
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Re: Christianity evolved from Judaism?

Post by A_Nony_Mouse »

Blood wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Being an old-timer I remember some time in the 70s when the term "Judeo-Christian" was popularized by the redneck Christian preachers. It was part of the invention of "Christian Zionist" and a consequence of the 67 and 73 wars. The popularization was the direct intrusion of OT into Christianity instead of the replacement theology of the previous 1800 years. Perhaps this can be traced to Darby's Chinese menu method of theology but I can't think of anything older which might be related to it.
It's fairly obvious that the term "Judeo-Christian" came into vogue after WWII in the USA as a gesture of atonement, i.e. "See, we Americans recognize the Jewish religion as part of our common heritage, and we're just going to pretend that we always have by using this term." Such an expression was rare among Christians in the USA prior to WWII.
That gets into politics and modern history which I have been reminded there are better places to discuss. However the popularization of the term was in the time frame I recounted having been there at the time it happened. I can add having been around since 1945 "atonement" is still not in the political lexicon of the US.

But again, off topic by direction of the moderator. Lets move on.
The religion of the priests is not the religion of the people.
Priests are just people with skin in the game and an income to lose.
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rakovsky
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Re: Christianity evolved from Judaism?

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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Perhaps that is religiously correct history. Lets us look at the facts.

Christianity is a creedal religion. Islam has two required beliefs, there is no god but god and Mohamed is his prophet. Christianity is swamped with required Creeds and "teachings" ignored on risk of damnation. Without question in ancient times there is nothing to indicate Judaism was other than a primitive ritual/taboo genital mutilating cult. Still today genital mutilation and adherence to the rituals and taboos is all that is required for conversion; there is not a required belief in sight.
I think you are bringing up an important issue, but also overstating the differences.
Judaism was more than just circumcision, it has tons of other torah rituals, and it de facto requires the stories to be your divinely inspired writings, since you have to obey those writings' rules. And one of the rules is worshiping only God the Lord, so that is a faith requirement.

And then Maimonides laid out over 600 over requirements, iirc, to avoid damnation, one being that you HAVE to believe on the afterlife.

And then since the 1st c. there has been an official Birkat Ha Minim, which presupposes that such things as "heresies" exist, so this is more evidence for the importance of doctrina list in traditional Judaism.

Post renaissance Reform Judaism got away from a lot of this.

My research on the prophecies of the Messiah's resurrection: http://rakovskii.livejournal.com
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