Worth a read

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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A_Nony_Mouse
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Worth a read

Post by A_Nony_Mouse »

It is worth while to recall in a few words whence and how we first arrived at a conception of God; next to compare what is said about the divine among the Hellenes and Hebrews; and finally |321 to enquire of those who are neither Hellenes nor Jews, but belong to the sect of the Galilaeans, why they preferred the belief of the Jews to ours; and what, further, can be the reason why they do not even adhere to the Jewish beliefs but have abandoned them also and followed a way of their own. For they have not accepted a single admirable or important doctrine of those that are held either by us Hellenes or by the Hebrews who derived them from Moses; but from both religions they have gathered what has been engrafted like powers of evil, as it were, on these nations----atheism from the Jewish levity, and a sordid and slovenly way of living from our indolence and vulgarity; and they desire that this should be called the noblest worship of the gods.
-- Against the Galileans, Bk 1, para 2, Emperor Julian (the Apostate)

Why worth a read? His mother was St. Helen, his father Constantine. The rest of his family who murdered him were Galileans. While you may see aspects of a family feud in it, this not definitely not an outsider's point of view as to what Christians were like. [Please no, Christians who do what we do not like are not real Christians, stuff. It is dreary.]

Modern?
Now that the human race possesses its knowledge of God by nature and not from teaching is proved to us first of all by the universal yearning for the divine that is in all men whether private persons or communities, whether considered as individuals or as races. For all of us, without being taught, have attained to a belief in some sort of divinity, though it is not easy for all men to know the precise truth about it, nor is it possible for those who do know it to tell it to all men. . . .1 Surely, besides this conception which is common to all men, there is another also. I mean that we are all by nature so closely dependent on the heavens and the gods that are visible therein, that even if any man conceives of another god besides these, he in every case assigns to him the heavens as his dwelling-place; not that he thereby separates him from the earth, but he so to speak establishes the King of |323 the All in the heavens 2 as in the most honourable place of all, and conceives of him as overseeing from there the affairs of this world.
-- para 3
Google for articles on which part of the brain this innate knowledge of the divine resides.

Shortly after he takes apart the snake in Eden story in a thoroughly modern manner and condemns the story on its face as blasphemy as no god could be as described in it. And his analysis does not die with the modern truncation created by St. Augustine.

When he takes apart the Tower of Babel story he demonstrates a modern grasp of the magnitude of the universe with bricks the size of the moon just to reach the moon much less the heavens far beyond.

Anyway, worth a read in my opinion never humble opinion.
The religion of the priests is not the religion of the people.
Priests are just people with skin in the game and an income to lose.
-- The Iron Webmaster
ficino
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Re: Worth a read

Post by ficino »

A good summary of Julian the Apostate's Hymn to King Helios (the Sun) as supreme divinity, and of his blend of theology and statecraft, is given in this review, which appeared today. The book being reviewed is an Italian translation of and commentary on Julian's treatise, by Attilio Mastrocinque: Giuliano l'Apostata, Discorso su Helios re. Studia classica et mediaevalia, Bd 5.

See link:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2013/2013-12-48.html
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A_Nony_Mouse
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Re: Worth a read

Post by A_Nony_Mouse »

ficino wrote:A good summary of Julian the Apostate's Hymn to King Helios (the Sun) as supreme divinity, and of his blend of theology and statecraft, is given in this review, which appeared today. The book being reviewed is an Italian translation of and commentary on Julian's treatise, by Attilio Mastrocinque: Giuliano l'Apostata, Discorso su Helios re. Studia classica et mediaevalia, Bd 5.

See link:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2013/2013-12-48.html
Much appreciated.

But let me add Roman Catholicism is the only significant deviation (along with some imitators responding to 19th c. nationalism) where a religion attempted to be independent of local civil rule but then only by claiming to be either the local civil rulers as in the Papal states or to be superior to civilian rule in appointing/confirming their rule, often for a price. Lots of details sort of different but in the end still a mix of religion and statecraft.

And even in the halcyon years of Rome the local bishops and priests had god on the same side as each of the competing armies. Gott mit Uns no matter who Uns is.
The religion of the priests is not the religion of the people.
Priests are just people with skin in the game and an income to lose.
-- The Iron Webmaster
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