Mark Wrote for Highly Educated People

[Secret Alias]

I was looking at Joe's recent post - posting.php?f=3&mode=quote&p=73162&sid= ... f7a83b4f5e - and, not wanting to delve into whether or not he is absolutely 'correct' about what he is suggesting - I was finding the situation where someone (in this case a person of Jewish background like myself) spends much of his time delving into the labyrinthine intricacies of Mark's gospel. It's a peculiar situation which I think is unlike any other text before or it I think.

Yes philosophers developed 'allegorical' or highly sophisticated interpretations of Homer and the Pentateuch. But only in the case of Mark's gospel is there actually something 'there' - i.e. Mark leaves clues and then effectively we are invited 'in' and - in the case of Joe and myself and many others - we stay there the rest of our lives.

Wasn't that Mark's intent? To 'trap' bibliophiles for ages to come in his little 'Dungeons and Dragons' parallel reality? Is there a precedent for this? I think the Pentateuch is the only text I can think of that has this intentional effort to have a book become a 'way of life' for participants. I don't think Homer intends his audience to 'live the book' in this way.

What does this tell us about Mark? Well I think he was Jewish and he was highly educated. But was there a culture already in place to effectively 'live the book' through secretive exegesis? Who were these people?

Also on the question of the truth of his gospel. I think too much time is spent wasted on the question of the historicity of Jesus. Maybe there was history to the gospel; maybe not. But I think if Mark wanted to define the truth of the gospel by the historicity of the man at its core he wouldn't have introduced the man in the way he did.

The truth of the gospel is that those who cleave to it will be saved. So - and I ask this partly ironically - will Jews like Joe and I who spend much of our conscious hours thinking about his gospel - have some sort of epiphany on our deathbeds. Mark or Jesus will come to us 'crystal clear' owing to the time spent thinking about him and reveal the secrets of the text finally and absolutely?

I don't 'say this because I 'hope' for this. I just wonder if that's the idea Mark intended, the idea Mark implanted in the text. Go to its innermost recesses where everything becomes hazy and 'make up your own shit' about an anthropomorphic divinity who came to earth during a certain year/period. How can Paul say that 'sects' are tolerated and are good unless there is no truth other than the creative act of 'making up shit.'

When someone close to you dies you really do have an awareness of the bridge between this world and what lies beyond it (even if that is nothingness). I can't help that even as you approach the void your mind never stops 'making up shit.' If you make up shit that involves being saved or redeemed - how is that to be evaluated from a 'worldly perspective'? Even if you try and measure these myths, if it's your last breath, why does it matter? Would I rather be 'right' and creatively spent withering with the cold comfort of not giving in to 'myth-making' or 'wrong' creatively and actively flying away to the heavens?

I watch my son play soccer and celebrate 'amazing goals.' I see him dejected after losses - even if he played technically better in the losses than the victories. The reality is all about him and his dreams. Are we really any different? What is 'the truth' really? The facts and figures of scientific investigation? Really? In that case I shouldn't enjoy fattening foods because they are killing me or enjoy the absurd narcissism of sexuality. What am I left with in this scientific world of truth? Applause from the crowd for 'staying true to the truth'? Whose truth? The truth of the herd?

Is that Mark's purpose - viz. to develop a parallel universe for daily meditation that even non-believers are drawn into and away from scientifically verifiable truths? Is there an inner brilliance to Mark's composition that hasn't been understood? A book of life - a life away from physical reality?

The bottom line: surely if there was a 'truth' to the gospel it goes against the labyrinthine structure that Mark builds ... or maybe not. Maybe the endless chiasms are like curtains in a shrine and the truth is in the inner sanctum. But what if there is nothing there? What if there are just curtains and Mark cleverly avoided defining what that truth was at the center of the text because it is the act of penetrating the veils which is the path to salvation. In the end, he intends for us in the end to 'make up our own shit' - connect the dots in whatever way we want. It doesn't matter. The intended path to salvation is pulling back the veils.

[outhouse]

I don't think so. It was a book for the common illiterate man and Judaism explained in detail for people with no education in Judaism.

I think the target audience was open to who ever would listen in a setting of pater familias with a large illiterate audience.

[Secret Alias]

It was a book for the common illiterate man

Book ... for the illiterate man. Isn't that like a steak for a vegetarian?

and Judaism explained in detail for people with no education in Judaism

But Christianity isn't Judaism. There never was a Jewish worship of God like this before Christianity. It represents something new and unheard of.

[Secret Alias]

What I am suggesting is that the gospel is like a super-Pentateuch a narrative with a hidden agenda. But Jewish worship before Christianity wasn't just about reading or hearing a book. There were many outward acts of veneration framed or introduced by the book. But the book wasn't the religion until Christianity.

[outhouse]

There never was a Jewish worship of God like this before Christianity.

Actually with Herods temple, Hellenistic Judaism was born, they flocked to the temple for monotheism but did not want to become full Jews.

Pretty hard to tell some dude your cutting his junk up so join us! No pass.

Isn't that like a steak for a vegetarian?

No in a pater familias you could have had a literate person reading to an audience.

[outhouse]

What I am suggesting is that the gospel is like a super-Pentateuch a narrative with a hidden agenda.

Agreed there is a little mystery in there.

But Jewish worship before Christianity wasn't just about reading or hearing a book. There were many outward acts of veneration framed or introduced by the book. But the book wasn't the religion until Christianity. .

I think text was important to many Jewish cultures. I think it varied and I think Hellenist did more reading due to having more literate people then say Aramaic Jews.

point noted

[iskander]

What I am suggesting is that the gospel is like a super-Pentateuch a narrative with a hidden agenda.

Agreed there is a little mystery in there.

But Jewish worship before Christianity wasn't just about reading or hearing a book. There were many outward acts of veneration framed or introduced by the book. But the book wasn't the religion until Christianity. .

I think text was important to many Jewish cultures. I think it varied and I think Hellenist did more reading due to having more literate people then say Aramaic Jews.

point noted

Mark author was the man who single handed defeated the sinister cult of YHWH . He was stronger than Alexander the Great and superior to the magnificent Shakespeare .

There is no one now like Mark to defend us from the Arabian branch of the Law. We are surrounded by pimps that pierce our hands, offend our ears , piss on the ankles and crap everywhere.

[iskander]

What I am suggesting is that the gospel is like a super-Pentateuch a narrative with a hidden agenda.

Agreed there is a little mystery in there.



But Jewish worship before Christianity wasn't just about reading or hearing a book. There were many outward acts of veneration framed or introduced by the book. But the book wasn't the religion until Christianity. .

Mark author was the man who single handed defeated the sinister cult of YHWH . He was stronger than Alexander the Great and superior to the magnificent Shakespeare .

There is no one now like Mark to defend us from the Arabian branch of the Law. We are surrounded by pimps that pierce our hands, offend our ears , piss on the ankles and crap everywhere.

[outhouse]

Mark author was the man who single handed defeated the sinister cult of YHWH . He was stronger than Alexander the Great and superior to the magnificent Shakespeare .

There is no one now like Mark to defend us from the Arabian branch of the Law. We are surrounded by pimps that pierce our hands, offend our ears , piss on the ankles and crap everywhere.

Trying to keep it civil

[Secret Alias]

But don't you wonder how a religion developed around a book saves people? Salvation must manifest itself from the act of reading (or 'hearing' for the rabble) - better yet, in the case of Mark, delving into the hidden meaning. Judaism became a religion of books, but it wasn't so originally.