Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?

[Secret Alias]

Cyril of Jerusalem, Catecheses 6.31: Τούτου μαθηταὶ τρεῖς γεγόνασι, Θωμᾶς καὶ Βαδδᾶς καὶ Ἑρμᾶς. Μηδεὶς ἀναγινωσκέτω τὸ κατὰ Θωμᾶν εὐαγγέλιον· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἑνὸς τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων, ἀλλ' ἑνὸς τῶν κακῶν τριῶν τοῦ Μάνου μαθητῶν. / This one [Mani] had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas, and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas, for he is not one of the twelve apostles, but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.

[davidbrainerd]

Cyril of Jerusalem, Catecheses 6.31: Τούτου μαθηταὶ τρεῖς γεγόνασι, Θωμᾶς καὶ Βαδδᾶς καὶ Ἑρμᾶς. Μηδεὶς ἀναγινωσκέτω τὸ κατὰ Θωμᾶν εὐαγγέλιον· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἑνὸς τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων, ἀλλ' ἑνὸς τῶν κακῶν τριῶν τοῦ Μάνου μαθητῶν. / This one [Mani] had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas, and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas, for he is not one of the twelve apostles, but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.

Hermas...Shepherd of Hermas?

[Secret Alias]

Baddas ... some bad ass.

[MrMacSon]

Cyril of Jerusalem, Catecheses 6.31: Τούτου μαθηταὶ τρεῖς γεγόνασι, Θωμᾶς καὶ Βαδδᾶς καὶ Ἑρμᾶς. Μηδεὶς ἀναγινωσκέτω τὸ κατὰ Θωμᾶν εὐαγγέλιον· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἑνὸς τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων, ἀλλ' ἑνὸς τῶν κακῶν τριῶν τοῦ Μάνου μαθητῶν. / This one [Mani] had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas, and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas, for he is not one of the twelve apostles, but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.

Hermas...Shepherd of Hermas?

Hermes Trismegistus? who was possibly 'a representation of the syncretic combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth' -

Origin and identity

The majority of Greeks, and later Romans, did not accept Hermes Trismegistus in the place of Hermes. The two gods were regarded as distinct. Cicero enumerates several deities referred to as "Hermes"... early references in Cicero (most ancient Trismegistus material is from the early centuries AD) corroborate the view that Thrice-Great Hermes originated in Hellenistic Egypt through syncretism between Greek and Egyptian gods (the Hermetica refer most often to Thoth and Amun).

The Hermetic literature among the Egyptians, which was concerned with conjuring spirits and animating statues, inform the oldest Hellenistic writings on Greco-Babylonian astrology and on the newly developed practice of alchemy.[10] In a parallel tradition, Hermetic philosophy rationalized and systematized religious cult practices and offered the adept a means of personal ascension from the constraints of physical being. This latter tradition has led to the confusion of Hermeticism with Gnosticism, which was developing contemporaneously.[11]

As a divine source of wisdom, Hermes Trismegistus was credited with tens of thousands of highly esteemed writings, which were reputed to be of immense antiquity. Plato's Timaeus and Critias state that in the temple of Neith at Sais there were secret halls containing historical records which had been kept for 9,000 years. Clement of Alexandria was under the impression that the Egyptians had forty-two sacred writings by Hermes, writings that detailed the training of Egyptian priests. Siegfried Morenz has suggested, in Egyptian Religion: "The reference to Thoth's authorship... is based on ancient tradition; the figure forty-two probably stems from the number of Egyptian nomes, and thus conveys the notion of completeness." The Neo-Platonic writers took up Clement's "forty-two essential texts".

The Hermetica is a category of papyri containing spells and initiatory induction procedures. The dialogue called the Asclepius (after the Greek god of healing) describes the art of imprisoning the souls of demons or of angels in statues with the help of herbs, gems, and odors, so that the statue could speak and engage in prophecy. In other papyri, there are recipes for constructing such images and animating them, such as when images are to be fashioned hollow so as to enclose a magic name inscribed on gold leaf.


Thrice Great

Many Christian writers, including Lactantius, Augustine, Giordano Bruno, Marsilio Ficino, Campanella, and Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, considered Hermes Trismegistus to be a wise pagan prophet who foresaw the coming of Christianity.[14][15] They believed in a prisca theologia, the doctrine that a single, true theology exists, which threads through all religions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus

Also http://gnosis.org/hermes.htm (seemingly by some bad ass active here ...)

and this recently-started thread - http://www.earlywritings.com/forum/view ... f=3&t=3363

including a link to the corpus hermeticum / the hermetica - http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/herm/

.

[andrewcriddle]

A/ The Gospel of Thomas is a 2nd century work and hence pre-Manichaean
B/ There is little doubt from a number of parallels that the Manichaeans knew and used the Gospel of Thomas.
C/ There is an ancient tradition that Mani had three disciples Thomas Addas and Hermas. See https://www.jstor.org/stable/1582858 There is an ancient Manichaean text the Psalms of Thomas which may possibly be by Mani's disciple Thomas but which has some interesting parallels to the Gospel of Thomas.

Andrew Criddle

[DCHindley]

A/ The Gospel of Thomas is a 2nd century work and hence pre-Manichaean
B/ There is little doubt from a number of parallels that the Manichaeans knew and used the Gospel of Thomas.
C/ There is an ancient tradition that Mani had three disciples Thomas Addas and Hermas. See https://www.jstor.org/stable/1582858 There is an ancient Manichaean text the Psalms of Thomas which may possibly be by Mani's disciple Thomas but which has some interesting parallels to the Gospel of Thomas.

Veerrrry interesting! That would explain a lot. Not sure I would agree that the GoT is "a 2nd century work." I might agree that the Coptic (4th century mss?) GoT is based on a 2nd century Greek GoT, but we just do not know how closely the Coptic followed the content and order of the Greek. The samples are few, so the confidence level in our hypotheses has to be pretty low.

Yet I don't recall there being other clearly Manichaean books among the Nag Hammadi Library.

DCH

[Peter Kirby]

... we just do not know how closely the Coptic followed the content and order of the Greek. The samples are few, so the confidence level in our hypotheses has to be pretty low.

I wonder if there's a way to quantify your contention. Seems possible. Would want to start with a list of the known divergences in "content and order." And of course an idea of what we mean by this (exact wording or bigger parts, etc.).

I suppose any Bayesians reading this can tell us the probability of the hypothesis given our background knowledge. Might be decent.

[davidbrainerd]

Also http://gnosis.org/hermes.htm (seemingly by some bad ass active here ...)

Wait...is Stephan A. Hoeller...Stephan Huller...Secret Alias, did you write that article?

[John2]

Stephan A. Hoeller (November 27, 1931) is an American author and scholar. He was born in Budapest, Hungary into a family of Austro-Hungarian nobility. Exiled from his native country as the result of the communist rule subsequent to World War II, he studied in various academic institutions in Austria, Belgium, and Italy. In January 1952 he emigrated to the United States on the steamship General Muir from the Port of Bremerhaven and has resided in Southern California ever since.

An author and scholar of Gnosticism and Jungian psychology, Hoeller is Regionary Bishop of Ecclesia Gnostica, and the senior holder of the English Gnostic transmission in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_A._Hoeller

[Stuart]

Also http://gnosis.org/hermes.htm (seemingly by some bad ass active here ...)

Wait...is Stephan A. Hoeller...Stephan Huller...Secret Alias, did you write that article?

Nope, he's a little older than Huller, and a different freak from down in LaLaLand. Calls himself presiding bishop of Ecclesia Gnostica.



Stephen, you're an OC guy, right? Angels and Ducks kinda guy. ...Sadly I have to admit you are better looking than the Hungarian