Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
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Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Cyril of Jerusalem, Catecheses 6.31: Τούτου μαθηταὶ τρεῖς γεγόνασι, Θωμᾶς καὶ Βαδδᾶς καὶ Ἑρμᾶς. Μηδεὶς ἀναγινωσκέτω τὸ κατὰ Θωμᾶν εὐαγγέλιον· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἑνὸς τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων, ἀλλ' ἑνὸς τῶν κακῶν τριῶν τοῦ Μάνου μαθητῶν. / This one [Mani] had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas, and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas, for he is not one of the twelve apostles, but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Hermas...Shepherd of Hermas?Secret Alias wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:58 am Cyril of Jerusalem, Catecheses 6.31: Τούτου μαθηταὶ τρεῖς γεγόνασι, Θωμᾶς καὶ Βαδδᾶς καὶ Ἑρμᾶς. Μηδεὶς ἀναγινωσκέτω τὸ κατὰ Θωμᾶν εὐαγγέλιον· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἑνὸς τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων, ἀλλ' ἑνὸς τῶν κακῶν τριῶν τοῦ Μάνου μαθητῶν. / This one [Mani] had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas, and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas, for he is not one of the twelve apostles, but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.
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Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Baddas ... some bad ass.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Hermes Trismegistus? who was possibly 'a representation of the syncretic combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth' -davidbrainerd wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:56 pmHermas...Shepherd of Hermas?Secret Alias wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:58 am Cyril of Jerusalem, Catecheses 6.31: Τούτου μαθηταὶ τρεῖς γεγόνασι, Θωμᾶς καὶ Βαδδᾶς καὶ Ἑρμᾶς. Μηδεὶς ἀναγινωσκέτω τὸ κατὰ Θωμᾶν εὐαγγέλιον· οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἑνὸς τῶν δώδεκα ἀποστόλων, ἀλλ' ἑνὸς τῶν κακῶν τριῶν τοῦ Μάνου μαθητῶν. / This one [Mani] had three disciples: Thomas, Baddas, and Hermas. Let no one read the Gospel according to Thomas, for he is not one of the twelve apostles, but one of the three wicked disciples of Mani.
Also http://gnosis.org/hermes.htm (seemingly by some bad ass active here ...)
Origin and identity
The majority of Greeks, and later Romans, did not accept Hermes Trismegistus in the place of Hermes. The two gods were regarded as distinct. Cicero enumerates several deities referred to as "Hermes"... early references in Cicero (most ancient Trismegistus material is from the early centuries AD) corroborate the view that Thrice-Great Hermes originated in Hellenistic Egypt through syncretism between Greek and Egyptian gods (the Hermetica refer most often to Thoth and Amun).
The Hermetic literature among the Egyptians, which was concerned with conjuring spirits and animating statues, inform the oldest Hellenistic writings on Greco-Babylonian astrology and on the newly developed practice of alchemy.[10] In a parallel tradition, Hermetic philosophy rationalized and systematized religious cult practices and offered the adept a means of personal ascension from the constraints of physical being. This latter tradition has led to the confusion of Hermeticism with Gnosticism, which was developing contemporaneously.[11]
As a divine source of wisdom, Hermes Trismegistus was credited with tens of thousands of highly esteemed writings, which were reputed to be of immense antiquity. Plato's Timaeus and Critias state that in the temple of Neith at Sais there were secret halls containing historical records which had been kept for 9,000 years. Clement of Alexandria was under the impression that the Egyptians had forty-two sacred writings by Hermes, writings that detailed the training of Egyptian priests. Siegfried Morenz has suggested, in Egyptian Religion: "The reference to Thoth's authorship... is based on ancient tradition; the figure forty-two probably stems from the number of Egyptian nomes, and thus conveys the notion of completeness." The Neo-Platonic writers took up Clement's "forty-two essential texts".
The Hermetica is a category of papyri containing spells and initiatory induction procedures. The dialogue called the Asclepius (after the Greek god of healing) describes the art of imprisoning the souls of demons or of angels in statues with the help of herbs, gems, and odors, so that the statue could speak and engage in prophecy. In other papyri, there are recipes for constructing such images and animating them, such as when images are to be fashioned hollow so as to enclose a magic name inscribed on gold leaf.
Thrice Great
Many Christian writers, including Lactantius, Augustine, Giordano Bruno, Marsilio Ficino, Campanella, and Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, considered Hermes Trismegistus to be a wise pagan prophet who foresaw the coming of Christianity.[14][15] They believed in a prisca theologia, the doctrine that a single, true theology exists, which threads through all religions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus
and this recently-started thread - http://www.earlywritings.com/forum/view ... f=3&t=3363
including a link to the corpus hermeticum / the hermetica - http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/herm/
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Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
A/ The Gospel of Thomas is a 2nd century work and hence pre-Manichaean
B/ There is little doubt from a number of parallels that the Manichaeans knew and used the Gospel of Thomas.
C/ There is an ancient tradition that Mani had three disciples Thomas Addas and Hermas. See https://www.jstor.org/stable/1582858 There is an ancient Manichaean text the Psalms of Thomas which may possibly be by Mani's disciple Thomas but which has some interesting parallels to the Gospel of Thomas.
Andrew Criddle
B/ There is little doubt from a number of parallels that the Manichaeans knew and used the Gospel of Thomas.
C/ There is an ancient tradition that Mani had three disciples Thomas Addas and Hermas. See https://www.jstor.org/stable/1582858 There is an ancient Manichaean text the Psalms of Thomas which may possibly be by Mani's disciple Thomas but which has some interesting parallels to the Gospel of Thomas.
Andrew Criddle
Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Veerrrry interesting! That would explain a lot. Not sure I would agree that the GoT is "a 2nd century work." I might agree that the Coptic (4th century mss?) GoT is based on a 2nd century Greek GoT, but we just do not know how closely the Coptic followed the content and order of the Greek. The samples are few, so the confidence level in our hypotheses has to be pretty low.andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:21 am A/ The Gospel of Thomas is a 2nd century work and hence pre-Manichaean
B/ There is little doubt from a number of parallels that the Manichaeans knew and used the Gospel of Thomas.
C/ There is an ancient tradition that Mani had three disciples Thomas Addas and Hermas. See https://www.jstor.org/stable/1582858 There is an ancient Manichaean text the Psalms of Thomas which may possibly be by Mani's disciple Thomas but which has some interesting parallels to the Gospel of Thomas.
Yet I don't recall there being other clearly Manichaean books among the Nag Hammadi Library.
DCH
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Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
I wonder if there's a way to quantify your contention. Seems possible. Would want to start with a list of the known divergences in "content and order." And of course an idea of what we mean by this (exact wording or bigger parts, etc.).
I suppose any Bayesians reading this can tell us the probability of the hypothesis given our background knowledge. Might be decent.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Wait...is Stephan A. Hoeller...Stephan Huller...Secret Alias, did you write that article?MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:26 pmAlso http://gnosis.org/hermes.htm (seemingly by some bad ass active here ...)
Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Stephan A. Hoeller (November 27, 1931) is an American author and scholar. He was born in Budapest, Hungary into a family of Austro-Hungarian nobility. Exiled from his native country as the result of the communist rule subsequent to World War II, he studied in various academic institutions in Austria, Belgium, and Italy. In January 1952 he emigrated to the United States on the steamship General Muir from the Port of Bremerhaven and has resided in Southern California ever since.
An author and scholar of Gnosticism and Jungian psychology, Hoeller is Regionary Bishop of Ecclesia Gnostica, and the senior holder of the English Gnostic transmission in America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_A._Hoeller
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
Re: Was the Gospel of Thomas Manichaean?
Nope, he's a little older than Huller, and a different freak from down in LaLaLand. Calls himself presiding bishop of Ecclesia Gnostica.davidbrainerd wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:06 pmWait...is Stephan A. Hoeller...Stephan Huller...Secret Alias, did you write that article?MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:26 pmAlso http://gnosis.org/hermes.htm (seemingly by some bad ass active here ...)
Stephen, you're an OC guy, right? Angels and Ducks kinda guy. ...Sadly I have to admit you are better looking than the Hungarian
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift