Yet you tried to proposed them as good or straight-forward evidence previously -
and two days ago -
You're posting simplistic, superficial assertions like you're an equally simplistic, superfical church-attending Christian apologist
Yet you tried to proposed them as good or straight-forward evidence previously -
You're posting simplistic, superficial assertions like you're an equally simplistic, superfical church-attending Christian apologist
I don't remember saying or suggesting that they are good or straight-forward evidence.
At that time, we were discussing the idea that someone(s) later decided to retrofit the stories back to the 1st C and Judea, and we had discussed the nature of early christianity in relation to that, if you recall correctly. I was referring to hearing a better theory for that. You appear to have amended my post so that it now has the word Jesus in it and reads as if I was referring to him and not a theory about retrofitting. At least you flagged it up, I suppose.
I can't respond in detail just now. It's Sunday. I have to attend afternoon prayers shortly.
Do you have the same issue with the word "dead," then? "The lamb has been dead since yesterday, and we are eating it tonight with rosemary and olive oil."Stefan Kristensen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:21 amI agree that the perfect passive participle of the verb "slay" is perfectly normal in the sense of "the slain bird" or "the slain lamb". And I also agree that the perfect passive participle can be prefectly natural with the preposition απο and the phrase "απο καταβολης κοσμου", as in the case of the Matthew passage. But I don't agree that the perfect passive participle of the particular verb "slay", either in Greek or English, is in any way natural with the phrase "απο καταβολη κοσμου", which I believe must be translated with the meaning "since" or "ever since".
"The lamb has been slain since yesterday, and we are eating it tonight with rosemary and olive oil.""The lamb has been dead since yesterday, and we are eating it tonight with rosemary and olive oil."
Nope, no problem with that of course. I think I see now, that an issue here is the English word "slain", because it can emphazise both the action itself, as in "killed", and also the state or condition of the victim, as in "dead", which you happen to mention here. I don't know, though, if you bring this example here with the word "dead" forward because you take it as a comparable parallel?Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:10 amDo you have the same issue with the word "dead," then? "The lamb has been dead since yesterday, and we are eating it tonight with rosemary and olive oil."Stefan Kristensen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:21 amI agree that the perfect passive participle of the verb "slay" is perfectly normal in the sense of "the slain bird" or "the slain lamb". And I also agree that the perfect passive participle can be prefectly natural with the preposition απο and the phrase "απο καταβολης κοσμου", as in the case of the Matthew passage. But I don't agree that the perfect passive participle of the particular verb "slay", either in Greek or English, is in any way natural with the phrase "απο καταβολη κοσμου", which I believe must be translated with the meaning "since" or "ever since".
Awkward. Rather, "The lamb died yesterday ...""The lamb has been dead since yesterday ..." Do you see any problem with that?
Consider:Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:58 pmAwkward. Rather, "The lamb died yesterday ...""The lamb has been dead since yesterday ..." Do you see any problem with that?
One can say "He has been dead since December 5", but it feels awkward to talk that way. Normally, we might say something like "He died on December 5", or "He has been dead since at least December 5."Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:18 pmConsider:Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:58 pmAwkward. Rather, "The lamb died yesterday ...""The lamb has been dead since yesterday ..." Do you see any problem with that?
"The ALUMNUS has just received information that Amos T. Roger... has been dead since December 7, 1913. .... Word has just reached the ALUMNUS that Frank E. Lodeman... has been dead since June 4, 1908." [Link: https://books.google.com/books?id=VYUmA ... 22&f=false.]
"There's a wild conspiracy theory on social media that the Queen has been dead since 2016." [Link: https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/11/14/the-queen-is-dead.]
"The real Avril Lavigne has been dead since 2004." [Link: https://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/265587 ... acy-theory.]
"The coroner estimates that the star has been dead since Tuesday." [Link: https://books.google.com/books?id=ijgkK ... 22&f=false.]
"Mr. Matthew McGregor has been dead since early spring, but his pay has been going on just the same." [Link: https://books.google.com/books?id=QqPzV ... 22&f=false.]
"Feng Chen Zhou... has been dead since 1980, but her body still occupies the master bedroom of the family home." [Link: https://books.google.com/books?id=GPEDA ... 22&f=false.]