question on language of original gospels

[markee]

Maybe dumb question but here goes:

If the gospels were originally written in Greek and the earliest copies we have or part copy (p52) dates from the second century 50 years or so after they were first written down then how do we know that the gospels were not originally written in say Aromaic or Coptic and copied into Greek?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Translations leave signs of translation, and the Gospels do not show any signs of translation. They also use the Greek Septuagint as their Bible and there are puns which would only make sense in Greek.

[markee]

Thank you, is John 3:3 an example of a pun and if so couldn't this have been an addition after translation? ... but I do take your first point therefore this must only be of academic interest

[markee]

However, in Mark ch.2 the passage about the sabbath and man does not make sense in Greek, it would only make sense if translated from Aramaic so how do we know it was not translated from written Aramaic?

[DCHindley]

Thank you, is John 3:3 an example of a pun and if so couldn't this have been an addition after translation? ... but I do take your first point therefore this must only be of academic interest

The Greek phrase gennēthēi anōthen (γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν) can mean either thing, depending on context used.

Gingrich & Arndt Lexicon: adv.—1. from above, esp. heaven Mk 15:38; J 19:23; Js 3:15.—2. from the beginning Lk 1:3; for a long time Ac 26:5.—3. again, anew Gal 4:9. In J 3:3, 7 a;) is purposely given a double meaning again and from above.

If you want to see how it was used outside of the NT, then there is Liddell Scott Jones, but them there sources are always in that crazy philologist style annotation:

ἄνωθεν and ἄνωθε (Ar.Ec.698), Dor. ἄνωθα Tab.Heracl.1.17: (ἄνω):—Adv. of Place,
A.from above, from on high, “θεοὺς ἄ. γῆς ἐποπτεύειν ἄχη” A.Ag.1579; “ὕδατος ἄ. γενομένου” Th.4.75; “βάλλειν ἄ.” Id.7.84; from the interior of a country, Id.1.59, X.An.7.7.2; esp. from inner Asia, Plu.Dem.14; from the north, Hdt.4.105.

2. like ἄνω, above, on high, opp. κάτωθεν or κάτω, A.Ag.871 (dub.): of the gods, Id.Supp.597 (lyr.), Pl.Lg.717b; of men on earth, οἱ ἄ. the living, A.Ch.834 (lyr.), E.Hel.1014; those on deck (in a ship), Th.7.63; of birds of the air, S.El.1058 (lyr.); ἡ ἄ. Φρυγία upper Phrygia, D.23.155.

b. rarely c. gen., “ἄ. τοῦ στρατοπέδου” Hdt.1.75; “τοῦ καρποῦ” Hp.Art.80; “τῆς νεώς” Plu. Them.12.

II. in narrative or inquiry, from the beginning, from farther back, ἄ. ἄρχεσθαι, ἐπιχειρεῖν, Pl.Phlb. 44d, Lg.781d; “ἄ. ἐξετάζειν τὸ γένος” D.44.69, cf. Men.Epit.23; in quotations, above, earlier, Sch.E.Ph.249, etc.: “οἱ ἔμπροσθεν καὶ ἄ. γονεῖς” ancestors, Pl.Ti.18d; “Κορίνθιαι εἰμὲς ἄ.” by descent, Theoc.15.91, cf. 22.164, Call.Aet.3.1.32; πονηρὸς ἄ. a born rogue, D.45.80; “ἐκ προγόνων ἄ. τετιμημένος” IG22.1072; “ἄ. ἀναμάρτητον” from early life, Phld. Sto.Herc.339.17.16; “ἐν τοῖς ἄ. χρόνοις” D.9.41.

2. “τὰ ἄ.” higher, more universal principles, Pl.Phd.101d, cf. Arist.AP0.97a33.

3. over again, anew, afresh, “φιλίαν ἄ. ποιεῖται” J.AJ1.18.3, Artem.1.14, cf. Ev.Jo.3.3; “πάλιν ἄ.” Ep.Gal.4.9, cf. Harp. s.v. ἀνάδικοι κρίσεις; κτίστης ἄνωθε γενόμενος IG7.2712.58.

Now supposedly, the Aramaic form of that word in the Syriac Pishetta, DRESH ( ܕܪܫ , or דרש ) can also have the same double meaning. See here:
http://katachriston.wordpress.com/2011/ ... y-well-no/
and here (reply #6):
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/for ... ic=44406.0

Be prepared to become dazed and confused!

DCH

[Peter Kirby]

It's a good question, I think. Welcome to the forum.