Is Mark 4:11-12 (and Messianic Secret) against the Marcion's “He who has ears, hearken!”?

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Giuseppe
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Is Mark 4:11-12 (and Messianic Secret) against the Marcion's “He who has ears, hearken!”?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:00 am

In the synagogue was a man
Who had an unclean demoniac spirit.
He cried out in a great voice,
What hast thou to do with us, Jesus?
Hast thou come for our perdition?
I know who thou art, the Holy One of God!
Jesus threatened him saying,
Be silent! Come out of him!
The devil, casting him down in their midst,
Came out of him without doing him harm.
(Mcn ~ Luke 4:33-35)

So Couchoud:
The Devil is aware of the power of Jesus, but be takes him for a particularly holy man such as Aaron, the Holy One of Jahweh (Ps. cvi).
(Creation of Christ, p. 392)

And Jesus “threatened him”
“Because this one lies in saying that Jesus comes from the god of the Jews” (T. iv. 17).
(ibid.)

Therefore the Invitation-to-Silence in Mcn is not typical Markan secrecy, but a reaction against false information made by the rulers of this age (who believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah).

But then it comes the suspect that Mark 4:11-12, the invitation to esoteric messages by a hidden Jesus, may be the Mark's apology against Marcion's invitation to spread the truth about the real identity of Jesus (being son of another God).

He who has ears, hearken!

When a man has lit a lamp,
He does not hide it behind a screen,
Nor does he place it beneath a bed.
No, he puts it in a candlestick
So that all who enter may see the light.
Nothing is hidden
Which should be shown;
Nothing is secret
Which should be known
And discovered.
(Mcn ~ Luke 8:8, 16-17)

So Couchoud (and he surprises!):
The god of the Jews said, Aure audietis et non audietis (Is. vi. 9). Jesus, on the other hand, wishes all ears to be opened (T. iv. 19). All should listen, since there is no longer anything hidden; everything is made clear.
(Creation of Christ, p. 399)

It is very strange: I have always read that the words of Isaiah (6:9) are indeed the source behind Mark 4:11-12 !!!

It is more good a Jesus who reveals the truth than a Jesus who hides it to his same people.


Which Jesus comes first?
Last edited by Giuseppe on Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
Posts: 2711
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Vicenza (Italy)

Re: Is Mark 4:11-12 against “He who has ears, hearken!” of marcionite memory?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:21 am


Mark 4:2-23Mcn ~ Luke 8:8, 16-17
2 He began to teach them many things in parables, and in his teaching he said to them: 3 “Listen! A sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell on the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and it sprang up quickly, since it had no depth of soil. 6 And when the sun rose, it was scorched; and since it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. 8 Other seed fell into good soil and brought forth grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirty and sixty and a hundredfold.” 9 And he said, “Let anyone with ears to hear listen!”
8 Some fell into good soil, and when it grew, it produced a hundredfold.” As he said this, he called out, “Let anyone with ears to hear listen!”
10 When he was alone, those who were around him along with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret[a] of the kingdom of God, but for those outside, everything comes in parables; 12 in order that

‘they may indeed look, but not perceive,
and may indeed listen, but not understand;
so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.’”

13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? Then how will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones on the path where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: when they hear the word, they immediately receive it with joy. 17 But they have no root, and endure only for a while; then, when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. 18 And others are those sown among the thorns: these are the ones who hear the word, 19 but the cares of the world, and the lure of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke the word, and it yields nothing. 20 And these are the ones sown on the good soil: they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty and sixty and a hundredfold.”
21 He said to them, “Is a lamp brought in to be put under the bushel basket, or under the bed, and not on the lampstand? 22 For there is nothing hidden, except to be disclosed; nor is anything secret, except to come to light. 23 Let anyone with ears to hear listen!”
16 “No one after lighting a lamp hides it under a jar, or puts it under a bed, but puts it on a lampstand, so that those who enter may see the light. 17 For nothing is hidden that will not be disclosed, nor is anything secret that will not become known and come to light.





Here there would be evidence that Mark was based on Mcn.

The Goal of Mark:
Jesus should not reveal his identity (that he is the Son of YHWH) in conformity to Isaiah 6:9 :
And he said, “Go and say to this people:
‘Keep listening, but do not comprehend;
keep looking, but do not understand.’
But the Jesus of Marcion wishes that all people know the truth about the his identity (that he is not the Son of YHWH).

Under the traditional hypothesis (Mark before Mcn) there was no need for Marcion of removing the second “explanation” of the Parable of Sower: to say the parable only one time is sufficient to interpret his point, for all the listeners (insiders or outsiders).

While, if your goal is making someway that parable as “esoteric” (so that only the insiders can interpret his point, and not the outsiders), then you have to insert a so-called “explanation” of the same parable for the only insiders.

Apparently (but only apparently) it seems simply absurd that Mark repeats twice the exclamation:
“Let anyone with ears to hear listen!”
...respectively in Mark 2:9 and Mark 2:23. What is the need of repeating it, if your point is to reveal the meaning of the parable at least for the insiders ? By doing so, Mark wants only to reiterate the theme of secrecy. But by all this emphasis on secrecy Mark reveals only his dependence on Mcn.

In other words, the entire point and the only point behind a repetition of the parable (apparently only for the insiders-who-are-not-insiders) serves only in order to reiterate the fact that the meaning of the parable remains hidden: neither outsiders nor insiders know the identity of Jesus. Period. That is the entire point of the repetition of the parable.

In substance, by this operation, Mark converts the meaning of the exhortation: “Let anyone with ears to hear listen!”. It is not more a sincere invitation to listen Jesus, but becomes only a way to reinforce even more the enigma surrounding the true identity of Jesus, in conformity to Isaiah 6:9 .

The result is that the listeners in Mark become more sinners than in Mcn. In Mark the listeners have to remain in ignorance so that their sins are not forgiven. This becomes anti-Jewish cruelty in order to make pass the idea that Jesus is REALLY - contra Marcionem - the Son of the cruel and just YHWH.

Insofar Jesus must hide his identity, the Jews have to become more and more blind (=more and more evil people).

Therefore the Jesus of Mark is more anti-Judaic than the Jesus of Marcion. And this can only be as reaction against Marcion.



Moreover, a sign of editorial fatigue by Mark in his depending on Mcn, is the fact that in Mark the demons break the Messianic Secret.While in Mcn this doesn't happen. If Mark was coherent with himself, he would have hidden the identity of Jesus ALSO AND ESPECIALLY FOR THE DEMONS, the first ones to be not forgiven in virtue of their blindness. But so it is not.

Therefore the entire Messianic Secret in Mark is mere anti-marcionite apology.

While there is no desire by Jesus of not revealing his identity in Marcion: it is only the people who are naturally blind and close to his invitation to recognize him as the Son of the Alien God.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Is Mark 4:11-12 (and Messianic Secret) against the Marcion's “He who has ears, hearken!”?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:50 am

The Parable of the Lamp does decisively more sense as interpretation of the Parable of Sower: who receives the Word has to proclaim it at the full light of the world and not bury it under the mere matter by ignorance or sin or fear.

But the Mark's Jesus goes against this same message when he introduces an esoteric "explanation" of the parable for the only so-called insiders, since he joins so with the same people who hide the Word instead of proclaiming it.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
Posts: 2711
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Vicenza (Italy)

Re: Is Mark 4:11-12 (and Messianic Secret) against the Marcion's “He who has ears, hearken!”?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:06 am

That Mark 4:11-12 is absent in Marcion's Gospel is proved by Tertullian:
On the subject of parables, let it suffice that it has been once for all shown that this kind of language was with equal distinctness promised by the Creator. But there is that direct mode of His speaking to the people— You shall hear with the ear, but you shall not understand (Isaiah 6:9) — which now claims notice as having furnished to Christ that frequent form of His earnest instruction: He that has ears to hear, let him hear. (Luke 8:8) Not as if Christ, actuated with a diverse spirit, permitted a hearing which the Creator had refused; but because the exhortation followed the threatening. First came, You shall hear with the ear, but shall not understand; then followed, He that has ears to hear, let him hear. For they wilfully refused to hear, although they had ears. He, however, was teaching them that it was the ears of the heart which were necessary; and with these the Creator had said that they would not hear. Therefore it is that He adds by His Christ, Take heed how you hear, (Luke 8:18) and hear not—meaning, of course, with the hearing of the heart, not of the ear. If you only attach a proper sense to the Creator's admonition, suitable to the meaning of Him who was rousing the people to hear by the words, Take heed how you hear, it amounted to a menace to such as would not hear. In fact, that most merciful god of yours, who judges not, neither is angry, is minatory. This is proved even by the sentence which immediately follows: Whosoever has, to him shall be given; and whosoever has not, from him shall be taken even that which he seems to have. (Luke 8:18) What shall be given? The increase of faith, or understanding, or even salvation. What shall be taken away? That, of course, which shall be given. By whom shall the gift and the deprivation be made? If by the Creator it be taken away, by Him also shall it be given. If by Marcion's god it be given, by Marcion's god also will it be taken away. Now, for whatever reason He threatens the deprivation, it will not be the work of a god who knows not how to threaten, because incapable of anger.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03124.htm

The controversial intent behind the insertion of Mark 4:11-12 into Mcn is evident. In this way the words of the Creator (Isaiah 6:9) are put directly into Jesus' mouth, so that the first does not hide what the second reveals, and vice versa.

That is also the reason why the marcionite theme of the idiotic disciples was preserved in Mark (and partially by Matthew): only having them as the USEFUL blind people, Isaia 6:9 may be used to confute Marcion's ''He that has ears to hear, let him hear''.

This is so evident that a proof of the presence of Mark 4:11-12 in Mcn is equivalent to a complete confutation of the Marcionite Priority.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
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Re: Is Mark 4:11-12 (and Messianic Secret) against the Marcion's “He who has ears, hearken!”?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:37 am

THere is a passage in the epistles that shows a strong similarity with Mark 14:11-12:

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
(2 Corinthians 4:4)
And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside, everything comes in parables; 12 in order that
‘they may indeed look, but not perceive
,
and may indeed listen, but not understand;
so that they may not turn again and be forgiven.’”
(Mark 4:11-12)

But note the great, unexpected difference: the blinder for Paul is Satan, ''the god of this age'', while for ''Mark'' (author) the blinder is Jesus, who remembers clearly the words of Isaiah 6:9, therefore a Jesus son of Jahweh, the Creator God of the Jews.

This is the further confirmation that Mark 4:11-12 couldn't be written by a true Pauline.

So Rylands:

The “god of this world” is not, however, a daemon in the ordinary signification of the term, nor is he Satan, for Satan is an evil angel - a daemon if you like - who has never been held to be a god. The Pauline god of this world is apparently the creator of it, to whom its imperfections are to be ascribed, since we are told (Rom. 9:20) that “the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but through him who subjected it”. The statement involves the Pauline and Gnostic belief in the intrinsic imperfection of matter, for which Satan could not be made responsible, though its creator might be. The Pauline dualism is thus at a stage beyond that of the earliest jewish Gnostics.

(L. G. Rylands, Beginning of Gnostic Christianity, p. 214)

And this thread.

Therefore the more simple explanation is that

1)
Marcion preserved the true pauline view about the Creator God.
2) The Gospel of Marcion, even if it wasn't written by him, didn't have Mark 4:11-12 and a second ''explanation'' of the Parable of Sowner,
3) ''Mark'' added Mark 4:11-12 + the second ''explanation'' of the Parable against Marcion, in order to make the blinder a positive figure (and not negative as per Marcion).

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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