Jax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:34 amI find it interesting to note that, besides Marcion in the 140's, Philemon isn't used by anyone else until the 4th century.
The Muratorian canon has it: "Nevertheless, he wrote one to Philemon and one to Titus, and two to Timothy for his affection and love." Also, Origen apparently wrote a commentary on Philemon; this has been lost except for a quotation by Rufinus.
I for one am willing to assume that Marcion had a letter to Philemon as part of his Paul letters.
Thanks for the John letters link above BTW. Very interesting.
Jax wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:27 pm
It seems to me that Philemon might have been the prototype for the Pastorals.
Are 2 and 3 John a response to this tradition?
Not sure about the specific question you ask here, but I have laid out a possible reconstruction of John versus Paul here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3221. I have already changed my mind about a few of the details in that scenario, but the overall flow of things may carry some merit.
Some comments, the way I see it, after my documented research:
Paul's letters: 1 Thessalonians (50), 1 Corinthians (53-55), 2 Corinthians (55-56), Philippians (53?-56/57?), Philemon (56), Galatians (56), Romans (57).
All letters, except Philemon, have interpolations. The Corinthians And Philippians letters are, for each, a combination of three different letters. Philemon & one of the Philippians letter are genuine prison letters.
At least, one other Corinthians letter got "lost".
Depends on OT, Philo of Alexandria and 'Hebrews" & its author (most likely Apollos of Alexandria).
Hebrews:
54. Depends on Philo and reacting to one of the Corinthians letters (the first one).
Colossians:
57?-65? Depends on Philemon.
James:
60?-65? (prior to 70). Reaction against Paul's preaching? probably.
Mark:
70-71. Likely depends on Paul' letters but not his whole preaching. Depends also on Peter's testimony.
1 Clement:
~81. Depends on some of Paul's letters, Mark & Hebrews.
Matthew:
81-93. Depends on Mark and Q and James and 1 Clement.
1 John:
75?-85? Depends on Hebrews.
1 Peter:
~80? Depends on Paul's letters.
Luke:
81-93. Depends on Mark & Q and Josephus' Wars and 1 Clement.
Acts:
A few years after Luke. Depends on Luke, Josephus' Wars and Paul's companions testimonies.
The Didache:
~95? (as an Ebionistic document still without the later Christian additions). Depends on Matthew.
John:
Written in stages from ~85 up to ~105. Depends on Mark, Luke, possibly Acts & Hebrews & Paul's letters.
Barnabas (epistle):
97. Depends on Matthew, possibly Luke & Acts.
Revelation:
~90/95? Depends on Matthew.
2 Thessalonians:
End of 1st century. Depends on 1 Thessalonians.
Ephesians:
End of 1st century. Depends on Colossians and probably some of Paul's letters.
That's it for 1st century known Christian literature.
Notes:
a) By "depends on", I meant the author knew and used prior literature or testimonies from a little bit to a lot.
b) The final Q considerably depends on Mark, but also features a few prior eyewitnesses' testimonies (about Jesus' sayings).
Cordially, Bernard
Last edited by Bernard Muller on Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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