Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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Jax
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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After careful consideration I have decided to join Bernard Miller in assigning 1Co. chapter nine as a separate letter; it does seem to just be hanging out by itself without any connection to the material around it. If anyone has objection to this I would love to hear it. Until then...

1: Galatians.

2: 1 Corinthians 1:1-4:21 *
3: 1 Corinthians 5:1-6:11
4: 1 Corinthians 9 *
5: 1 Corinthians 6:12- 8:13, 10- 16:24. With 11:23-28 as a possible interpolation and 14:34-35 as a very probable interpolation.

6: 2 Corinthians 1:1-2:13 and 7:5-16.
7: 2 Corinthians 2:14-6:13 and 7:2-4. With 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1 as a possible later interpolation. *
8: 2 Corinthians 8:1-24.
9: 2 Corinthians 9:1-15.
10: 2 Corinthians 10-13. *

11: 1 Thessalonians 2:17-4:2.
12: 1 Thessalonians 1:1-2:16 and 4:3-5:28. With 2:14- 16 as a possible interpolation.

13: Philippians 1:1-3:1.
14: Philippians 3:2-4:9
15: Philippians 4:10-20 and also 4:21-23 *

16: Romans 1 and 2:6-16 and 3:21-26 and 5:1-11 and 8 and 12 and 13

Romans 9-11 as a possible later interpolation?

17: Romans 2:1-5 and 2:17-29 and 3:1-20 and 3:27-31 and 4 and 5:12-20 and 6, 7, 14, Romans 15?

Romans 16?
Last edited by Jax on Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 am
11: 1 Thessalonians 2:13-4:2.
12: 1 Thessalonians 1:1-2:12 and 4:3-5:28.
.
Do you have a view about which might have come first, if one might have?
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MrMacSon
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 am
2: 1 Corinthians 1:1-4:21 *
3: 1 Corinthians 5:1-6:11
2: 1 Corinthians 9 *
5: 1 Corinthians 6:12- 8:13, 10- 16:24. With 11:23-28 as a possible interpolation and 14:34-35 as a very probable interpolation.
.
Do you think 1 Cor 9 came later?

Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 am
.6: 2 Corinthians 1:1-2:13 and 7:5-16.
.7: 2 Corinthians 2:14-6:13 and 7:2-4. With 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1 as a possible later interpolation. *
.8: 2 Corinthians 8:1-24.
.9: 2 Corinthians 9:1-15.
10: 2 Corinthians 10-13. *
Is there any indication that 2 Corinthians 2:14-6:13 and 7:2-4 was inserted between 2 Corinthians 1:1-2:13 and 7:5-16? and if so, why?

or would 2 Cor 7:5-16 have been appended?
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Jax
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:17 am
Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 am
11: 1 Thessalonians 2:13-4:2.
12: 1 Thessalonians 1:1-2:12 and 4:3-5:28.
.
Do you have a view about which might have come first, if one might have?
Hi MrMacSon, first I think that I may have made a mistake and it really should be 1 Thessalonians 2:17- 4:2 and 1 Thessalonians 1:1- 2:16 with 4:3- 5:28

My source identifies 1 Thessalonians 2:17- 4:2 as letter A and the other as letter B, simply to designate the separation of the letters, not to show which has primacy per se.
Last edited by Jax on Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jax
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:27 am
Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 am
2: 1 Corinthians 1:1-4:21 *
3: 1 Corinthians 5:1-6:11
2: 1 Corinthians 9 *
5: 1 Corinthians 6:12- 8:13, 10- 16:24. With 11:23-28 as a possible interpolation and 14:34-35 as a very probable interpolation.
.
Do you think 1 Cor 9 came later?
Don't really know. All I can say for sure is that it seems out of place with the surrounding material to me.

Purely subjective I know, but there it is.
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Jax
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:48 am
MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:17 am
Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 am
11: 1 Thessalonians 2:13-4:2.
12: 1 Thessalonians 1:1-2:12 and 4:3-5:28.
.
Do you have a view about which might have come first, if one might have?
Hi MrMacSon, first I think that I may have made a mistake and it really should be 1 Thessalonians 2:17- 4:2 and 1 Thessalonians 1:1- 2:16 with 4:3- 5:28

My source identifies 1 Thessalonians 2:17- 4:3 as letter A and the other as letter B, simply to designate the separation of the letters, not to show which has primacy per se.
Although, in reference to 2:13- 16 I think this information is worth considering.
Burton Mack writes of 1 Thess. 2:14-16 in his Who Wrote the New Testament? (p. 113): "The person who made this change was interested in directing Paul's apocalyptic preachments against those who opposed the Christian mission and did so by inserting a small unit aimed specifically at the Jews who 'killed Jesus' and 'drove us out,' for which reason 'God's wrath has overtaken them at last.' Nothing in all of Paul's letters comes close to such a pronouncement (Pearson 1971). The idea seriously tarnishes the inclusive logic of the Christ myth, and it presupposes the logic of Mark's passion narrative which, as we shall see, runs counter to that of the Christ myth. And since, according to this addition, it was the Jews upon whom God's wrath had (already) fallen, the reference must surely be to the destruction of the temple in 70 C.E., an event that Paul did not live to see."

Udo Schnelle comments on the same passage (The History and Theology, p. 48):

I Thess. 2.14-16 has often been regarded as a post-Pauline interpolation. The following arguments have been based on the content: (1) the contradiction between Romans 9-11 and 1 Thess. 2.14-16. (2) The references to what has happened to Jews as a model for a Gentile Christian church. (3) There were no extensive persecutions of Christians by Jews in Palestine prior to the first Jewish war. (4) The use of the concept of imitation in 1 Thessalonians 2.14 is singular. (5) The aorist εφτασεν (has overtaken) refers to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Schnelle maintains that these arguments are insufficient (op. cit., p. 48):

(1) The tension between 1 Thessalonians 2.14-16 and Romans 9-11 goes back to Paul himself. It is a problem that needs to be explained, not a problem to be set aside by interpolation hypotheses. (2) Paul's ecclesiology presupposes a church of Jewish and Gentile Christians, so that Jewish Christians in Palestine can in fact serve as a model for Gentile Christians elsewhere. (3) Prior to 70 CE there were already conflicts between Jews and Christians in Palestine (cf. Luke 6.22). (4) The concept of imitation in 1 Thessalonians 2.14 is found already in 1 Thessalonians 1.6. (5) 1 Thessalonians 2.16c does not have the destruction of Jerusalem in view, but Paul sees in the hostile conduct of the Jews that the wrath of God has come to completion.

Raymond Brown mentions two additional reasons that the passage might be considered to be an interpolation. The first is that, "It constitutes a second Thanksgiving in the letter" (An Introduction, p. 463). The second is that, "The statement that the Jews 'are the enemies of the whole human race' resembles general Pagan polemic, scarcely characteristic of Paul." Yet Brown goes on to mention arguments in favor of authenticity (op. cit., p. 463):

(a) All mss. contain it; (b) Paul speaks hostilely of 'Jews' as persecutors in II Cor 11:24, and he is not incapable of polemic hyperbole; (c) In Rom (2:5; 3:5-6; 4:15; 11:25) Paul speaks of the wrath of God against Jews, so that the hope of their ultimate salvation does not prevent portrayal of divine disfavor.

It is also sometimes suggested that 5:1-11 is "a post-Pauline insertion that has many features of Lucan language and theology that serves as an apologetic correction to the Pauline expectation of the parousia and thus already reflects the problem of the delay of the parousia" (Schnelle, p. 48).

Paul had clearly taught that Jesus would be coming within the lifetimes of those alive at the time. This teaching led to concerns in the Thessalonian church over the fate of those who had died before the coming of the Lord. Would they share in the joy of the parousia? Paul writes to assure the Thessalonians that those who had fallen asleep in Christ would also profit from the coming of the Lord. Paul instructs them that the dead would come to life first and that they would join the living with the Lord when he comes.
Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/1 ... nians.html
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Jax
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:27 am
Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 am
.6: 2 Corinthians 1:1-2:13 and 7:5-16.
.7: 2 Corinthians 2:14-6:13 and 7:2-4. With 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1 as a possible later interpolation. *
.8: 2 Corinthians 8:1-24.
.9: 2 Corinthians 9:1-15.
10: 2 Corinthians 10-13. *
Is there any indication that 2 Corinthians 2:14-6:13 and 7:2-4 was inserted between 2 Corinthians 1:1-2:13 and 7:5-16? and if so, why?

or would 2 Cor 7:5-16 have been appended?
Good questions. I don't know.

Lane
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Jax
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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^
Werner Georg Kummel would like to view the letter to be a whole composed by the apostle Paul on one occasion (Introduction to the New Testament, pp. 287-293).

However, there are difficulties that have suggested to several commentators that 2 Corinthians has been compiled from several pieces of correspondence. Since the "sorrowful letter" mentioned in 2:4 does not describe 1 Corinthians, we know that Paul had written at least three letters to the Corinthians. A quite reasonable suggestion is that the last four chapters contain the "sorrowful letter" that is mentioned in 2:4.

Other evidence bears out this view. Edgar J. Goodspeed notes a few considerations that suggest disunity in 2 Corinthians (An Introduction to the New Testament, pp. 58-59). On the one hand, "From the beginning through chapter 9 it is pervaded by a sense of harmony, reconciliation, and comfort." On the other, "With the beginning of chapter 10 we are once more in the midst of personal misunderstanding and bitterness, and these continue to dominate the letter to the end . . . This undeniable incongruity between the two parts of II Corinthians naturally suggests that we have in it two letters instead of one - one conciliatory and gratified, the other injured and incensed. And as the early part of II Corinthians clearly looks back upon a painful, regretted letter, the possibility suggests itself that we actually have that letter in chapters 10-13."

Norman Perrin offers the following solution with five Pauline fragments and one non-Pauline interpolation (The New Testament: An Introduction, pp. 104-105).

Verses 2:14-6:13 and 7:2-4 are "part of a letter that Paul wrote to defend himself and his authority against opponents who came to Corinth bearing letters of recommendation from Christian communities in which they had previously worked and who rapidly assumed positions of authority in the Corinthian community."
Verses 10:1-13:14 contain the sorrowful letter. After his first unsuccessful attempt to assert his authority with the Corinthian community failed, Paul visited the church and was humiliated in public (2:5, 7:12). After this incident, from Ephesus Paul wrote against the "superlative apostles" who appealed to visions and miracle-working as proof of their authority. Paul himself "appeals to the original effectiveness of the gospel he preached in Corinth so as not to be a burden on his converts, and to his own Jewish heritage and his sufferings as a servant of Christ" in order to win back authority in Corinth.
Verses 1:1-2:13 and 7:5-16 are a "letter of reconciliation." After the success achieved through his painful letter, Paul "wrote a letter rejoicing in the resumption of good relations between him and the Corinthian Christian community."
Verse 8:1-24 are "part of a letter of recommendation for Titus as organizer of the collection of saints in Jerusalem." It is impossible to know the relationship between this letter and the rest of Paul's correspondence with Corinth.
Verses 9:1-15 are "part of a letter concerning the collection for the saints." It is again impossible to determine this letter's relationship to the rest of Paul's letters to Corinth.
Finally, verses 6:14-7:1 contain a fragment that has next to no connection to Paul in ideas or wording, although it does have some affinities with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Kummel allows that 6:14-7:1 is interpolated yet still maintains that it is Pauline. However, Joseph Fitzmyer has argued that 6:14-7:1 is an interpolation from a document at Qumran in an essay reproduced in The Semitic Background of the New Testament, pp. 205-217. There are three reasons to posit that the passage is interpolated: "the paragraph radically interrupts the chain of thought between 6:13 and 7:2," the passage is "a unit intelligible in itself," and "six of the key-words in the passage are not found elsewhere in the New Testament." Fitzmyer argues that references to triple dualism, the opposition to idols, the temple of God, separation from all impurity, and the concatenation of Old Testament texts point to a Qumranic origin for the interpolated fragment.
From http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2corinthians.html
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Jax
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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Also Bart Ehrman has opined that 2 Corinthians is five letters although I seem to recall that he has stated elsewhere that it may actually be as many as seven letters.

https://ehrmanblog.org/is-2-corinthians-five-letters/
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Re: Deconstructed Letters of Paulos

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Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:55 am
MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:27 am Do you think 1 Cor 9 came later?
Don't really know. All I can say for sure is that it seems out of place with the surrounding material to me.

Purely subjective I know, but there it is.
Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:20 am
MrMacSon wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:27 am Is there any indication that 2 Corinthians 2:14-6:13 and 7:2-4 was inserted between 2 Corinthians 1:1-2:13 and 7:5-16? and if so, why?

or would 2 Cor 7:5-16 have been appended?
Good questions. I don't know.
Lane
Cheers, Lane.

Jax wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:48 am My source identifies 1 Thessalonians 2:17- 4:2 as letter A and the other as letter B, simply to designate the separation of the letters, not to show which has primacy per se.
Cheers.
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