Re: Going fishing.
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:44 pm
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1) I think that the understanding of symbols in the biblical narratives can be one of the most difficult questions of the interpretation. Often a majority „know“ that a symbol (or a metaphor) is used (for example: Mark's fig tree) but there are two, three, four views what the symbol mean and worth considering arguments on all sides (the same applies to the works of Virgil and other ancient authors).
One problem is that a symbol (or a metaphor) can have more than one meaning (the broken bread can be the body of the Lord but also the entirety of Christians can be the Lord's body) and it can have different meanings in the works of different authors (imho: Mark's and Matthew's trees). Another problem can be that a symbol with a known meaning is used in a different way (LXX-Isaiah's vineyard in Mark's parable of the tenants).
The use of fish in the feedings of the multitudes may be a symbol hard to understand. There could be the question whether Mark invented it or whether he knew Christian community meals with fish, and if the latter, whether he used nevertheless the fish as a symbol with a precise meaning or on the contrary not as a symbol.
2) From the point of view of the usual chronological order it seems that Paul used the word „fish“ in the way of the LXX as one of the basic groups animals (omitting the „Creeping things upon the land/earth“)
3) In GMark appeared three things
The first time the disciples are engaged with people is during the sending out of the twelve. The second time is their work at the feedings of the multitudes.
- the fish is the fish of the disciples and
- it's their job to set it before the people
I have no concrete idea about it, but there could be the possibility that in Mark's view the three things (disciples as fishers, as fishers of men and their job to set their bread and fish before the people) were related together and parts of the same overriding theme.
1) I think that the understanding of symbols in the biblical narratives can be one of the most difficult questions of the interpretation. Often a majority „know“ that a symbol (or a metaphor) is used (for example: Mark's fig tree) but there are two, three, four views what the symbol mean and worth considering arguments on all sides (the same applies to the works of Virgil and other ancient authors).
One problem is that a symbol (or a metaphor) can have more than one meaning (the broken bread can be the body of the Lord but also the entirety of Christians can be the Lord's body) and it can have different meanings in the works of different authors (imho: Mark's and Matthew's trees). Another problem can be that a symbol with a known meaning is used in a different way (LXX-Isaiah's vineyard in Mark's parable of the tenants).
The use of fish in the feedings of the multitudes may be a symbol hard to understand. There could be the question whether Mark invented it or whether he knew Christian community meals with fish, and if the latter, whether he used nevertheless the fish as a symbol with a precise meaning or on the contrary not as a symbol.
2) From the point of view of the usual chronological order it seems that Paul used the word „fish“ in the way of the LXX as one of the basic groups animals (omitting the „Creeping things upon the land/earth“)
1 Corinthians 15.39: 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish [ἰχθύων].
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:08 am The Jewish tradition repeatedly divides animalkind into 4 basic groups:
A. Beasts (or cattle) of the land/earth.
B. Birds of the sky/air.
C. Fish of the sea/water.
D. Creeping things upon the land/earth.
Genesis 1.26: 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over [C] the fish of the sea and over [B] the birds of the sky and over [A] the cattle and over all the earth, and over [D] every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
...
3) In GMark appeared three things
- the disciples as fishers
- their shaping to become fishers of men
- the feedings of the multitudes with blessed bread and fish
- their shaping to become fishers of men
- the feedings of the multitudes with blessed bread and fish
The first time the disciples are engaged with people is during the sending out of the twelve. The second time is their work at the feedings of the multitudes.
- the fish is the fish of the disciples and
- it's their job to set it before the people
6:37 But He answered them, "You give them something to eat!" And they say to Him, "Shall we go and spend two hundred denarii on bread and give them something to eat?" 38 And He says to them, "How many loaves do you have? Go look!" And when they found out, they say, "Five, and two fish." 39 And He commanded them all to sit down by groups on the green grass. 40 They sat down in groups of hundreds and of fifties. 41 And He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up toward heaven, He blessed the food and broke the loaves and He kept giving them to the disciples to set before them; and He divided up the two fish among them all.
8:6 And He directed the multitude to sit down on the ground; and taking the seven loaves, He gave thanks and broke them, and started giving them to His disciples to serve to them, and they served them to the multitude. 7 They also had a few small fish; and after He had blessed them, He ordered these to be served as well.
8:6 And He directed the multitude to sit down on the ground; and taking the seven loaves, He gave thanks and broke them, and started giving them to His disciples to serve to them, and they served them to the multitude. 7 They also had a few small fish; and after He had blessed them, He ordered these to be served as well.
I have no concrete idea about it, but there could be the possibility that in Mark's view the three things (disciples as fishers, as fishers of men and their job to set their bread and fish before the people) were related together and parts of the same overriding theme.