Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

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Giuseppe
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Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Giuseppe »

Usually it is common to say that Pilate is a saint in the Gospels, to give the ''hot potatoes'' to the Jews. Ok this for Matthew and John. But is it true also for proto-Mark and proto-Luke (= Mcn in my view) ?

(PREMISE: I am reading the Gospel as work of fiction, here).

I would see the following anomalies with the common portrait of a ''Saint'' Pilate:
15 Very early in the morning, the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, made their plans. So they bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate.
2 “Are you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate.
“You have said so,” Jesus replied.
3 The chief priests accused him of many things. 4 So again Pilate asked him, “Aren’t you going to answer? See how many things they are accusing you of.”
5 But Jesus still made no reply, and Pilate was amazed.
6 Now it was the custom at the festival to release a prisoner whom the people requested. 7 A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising. 8 The crowd came up and asked Pilate to do for them what he usually did.
9 “Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate, 10 knowing it was out of self-interest that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him. 11 But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have Pilate release Barabbas instead.
12 “What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” Pilate asked them.
13 “Crucify him!” they shouted.
14 “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.
But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”
15 Wanting to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas to them. He had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.

16 The soldiers led Jesus away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium) and called together the whole company of soldiers. 17 They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him. 18 And they began to call out to him, “Hail, king of the Jews!” 19 Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him. 20 And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him out to crucify him.
1) it is the crowd - and not Pilate - who appeals to the ''custom of the festival'' (verse 8).
2) Pilate asks to the crowd, but it is not clear at all that he wants to persuade the crowd to opt for the liberation of Jesus. The same episode may be interpreted in this way: Pilate exploited the hatred (and decision) of the crowd for Jesus to decide just the punishment of the latter.
3) it is not clear why Jesus is tortured by the Roman soldiers, if really Pilate had pity for him.

Now, according the evidence of the belief of the Cerinthians (the first users of proto-Mark), the spiritual Christ flew from the man Jesus. This fugue of the Christ could be happened even before the torture of Jesus, in the form of the same Jesus Bar-Abbas (Jesus son of Father).

(Haer. 1.26.1):
A certain Cerinthus, then in Asia taught that the world was not made by the Supreme God, but by a certain Power highly separated and far removed from that Principality who transcended the universe, and which is ignorant of the one who is above all, God. He suggested that Jesus was not born of a virgin (because that seemed to him impossible), but that he was the son of Joseph and Mary, in the same way as all other men but he was more versed in righteousness, prudence and wisdom than other men. And after his baptism, Christ descended upon him from that Principality that is above all in the form of a dove. And then he proclaimed the unknown Father and performed miracles. But at last Christ flew again from Jesus; Jesus suffered and rose again while Christ remained impassible, being a spiritual being
Seen from this point of view, then Pilate would have wanted the punition of the Jesus ''called king of Jews'' by using the caprices of the crowd (given the absence of a real accusation against Jesus in his hand).
Note that Barabbas is not described as insurretionist and assassin, but only as a prisoner with the rebels and assassins: if he is innocent, he is the real Jesus who prayed God calling him ''Abbà'' in Getsemani.

Note that for Cerinthians the true Christ ''remained impassible'', therefore logically even the tortures of the Roman soldiers have not to be applied to him, but to the man Jesus ''called king of Jews''. But this can only be true if the spiritual Christ had abandoned Jesus even before these tortures. Only if the spiritual Christ was Barabbas.


A confirmation of this point comes from the description of Barabbas given by the proto-catholic Matthew:
At that time they had a well-known prisoner whose name was Jesus Barabbas.
(27:17)

''well-known'' proves that Barabbas is known by the crowd as a criminal.

The criminal nature of Barabbas is confirmed more explicitly also by Luke:
(Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)
(Luke 23:19)

Curiously, in the fourth Gospel of John there is no Barabbas! No need of a ''masked'' divine Christ, if the principal hero of the story is already the divine Christ without dissimulations.

Therefore in this interpretation Barabbas is the good character of the story (the same spiritual Christ), while the man Jesus is Condemned by the demiurge (''Pilate'') just as he is ''the son of Joseph and Mary, in the same way as all other men but he was more versed in righteousness, prudence and wisdom than other men''.
...for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life
(2 Cor 3:6)

The man Jesus is condemned just in virtue of the his observance of the Law of the Demiurge, symbolized by Pilate.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Giuseppe »

If the Spiritual Christ is Barabbas, then precisely who the crucified man was invoking in vain on the cross?
34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”
36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.
I wonder: was he invoking in vain the same Demiurge, seeing how he was abandoned by the Creator?

Even the people around were misunderstood: was he calling Elijah (the prophet of the Demiurge)?

Just as the man Jesus thought that he was abandoned by the Demiurge (when really he was abandoned by the spiritual Christ of an alien God), so the people around thought that he was invoking Elijiah (when really he was invoking the Creator).

So the incomprehension is total.

But something happened, at the end.
37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.
38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died, he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”
The temple (and the Law) of the Demiurge is destroyed.
At that precise moment, the centurion confirms that the man Jesus was really adopted by the alien God. And so the Christians will be adopted as sons of the alien God. At their death.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:18 amNow, according the evidence of the belief of the Cerinthians (the first users of proto-Mark), the spiritual Christ flew from the man Jesus. This fugue of the Christ could be happened even before the torture of Jesus, in the form of the same Jesus Bar-Abbas (Jesus son of Father).
I doubt it affects your thesis, since it seems certain that some early Christians were separationists, but it is interesting to read chapter 1 of Patristic Evidence for Jewish-Christian Sects by A. F. J. Klijn and G. J. Reinink, who argue that Cerinthus, known to hail from Asia Minor, basically became the unwitting receptacle for any and all Asian heresies the later fathers wished to impute to him. They conclude:

This means that no author knows of any other historical traditions about Cerinthus, apart from those which describe him as a heretic living in Asia during the Apostolic period. The idea that he was a "Judaistic-Millenarian-Gnostic", and any conclusion drawn from this supposition regarding the origin or development of Gnosticism, has no historical value. These notions about Cerinthus are the inventions of early Christian authors.

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Giuseppe
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Giuseppe »

Note that this hypothesis would explain why the proto-catholic Matthew preferred to add the name ''Jesus'' to the title ''Barabbas'': in this way there is not more the risk that Barabbas is confused with another Christ (the true, spiritual Christ of the Cerinthians?) and not rather with another Jesus (surely, a comparison between a man and a man less embarrassing for Matthew than a comparison between a god and a man).

So I can answer now to the question raised time ago by Ben about why ''Jesus Barabbas'' is preserved only in MSS of Matthew but not of Mark.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Giuseppe »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:58 am
Giuseppe wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:18 amNow, according the evidence of the belief of the Cerinthians (the first users of proto-Mark), the spiritual Christ flew from the man Jesus. This fugue of the Christ could be happened even before the torture of Jesus, in the form of the same Jesus Bar-Abbas (Jesus son of Father).
I doubt it affects your thesis, since it seems certain that some early Christians were separationists, but it is interesting to read chapter 1 of Patristic Evidence for Jewish-Christian Sects by A. F. J. Klijn and G. J. Reinink, who argue that Cerinthus, known to hail from Asia Minor, basically became the unwitting receptacle for any and all Asian heresies the later fathers wished to impute to him. They conclude:

This means that no author knows of any other historical traditions about Cerinthus, apart from those which describe him as a heretic living in Asia during the Apostolic period. The idea that he was a "Judaistic-Millenarian-Gnostic", and any conclusion drawn from this supposition regarding the origin or development of Gnosticism, has no historical value. These notions about Cerinthus are the inventions of early Christian authors.

I know well (and prof Price surely better than me) the contempt shown by the ''consensus'' about any reconstruction of ''Gnostic'' origins of Christianity. But even if you are right about Cerinthus, it is sufficient for me the words of Ireneus about the first users of proto-Mark (a view that surely an ''adoptionist-reader-of-Mark'' as you :notworthy: would agree with ):

For the Ebionites, who use Matthew's Gospel only, are confuted out of this very same, making false suppositions with regard to the Lord. But Marcion, mutilating that according to Luke, is proved to be a blasphemer of the only existing God, from those [passages] which he still retains. Those, again, who separate Jesus from Christ, alleging that Christ remained impassible, but that it was Jesus who suffered, preferring the Gospel by Mark, if they read it with a love of truth, may have their errors rectified. Those, moreover, who follow Valentinus, making copious use of that according to John, to illustrate their conjunctions, shall be proved to be totally in error by means of this very Gospel, as I have shown in the first book.
(Ireneus, 3, 11, 7)

No mention of Cerinthus there, but surely a witness of more value than those about Cerinthus.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:12 amI know well (and prof Price surely better than me) the contempt shown by the ''consensus'' about any reconstruction of ''Gnostic'' origins of Christianity.
Oh, I do not think the intent of that chapter has anything to do with this question. It is only about Cerinthus. It does not bring into question that such heresies existed in Asia; rather, it simply questions whether we can be sure that Cerinthus had anything to do with them. (Reports about his beliefs are confusing and seemingly contradictory.)

I agree that adoptionists, including separationists, existed (and early). Obviously, since I think somebody responsible for the gospel of Mark was one of them, as well you remember.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Giuseppe »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:21 am
Giuseppe wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:12 amI know well (and prof Price surely better than me) the contempt shown by the ''consensus'' about any reconstruction of ''Gnostic'' origins of Christianity.
Oh, I do not think the intent of that chapter has anything to do with this question. It is only about Cerinthus. It does not bring into question that such heresies existed in Asia; rather, it simply questions whether we can be sure that Cerinthus had anything to do with them.
Ok, ''Cerinthus'' was only a name ''lightning rod'', à la Simon Magus. I agree fully with that.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:32 am
Ben C. Smith wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:21 am
Giuseppe wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:12 amI know well (and prof Price surely better than me) the contempt shown by the ''consensus'' about any reconstruction of ''Gnostic'' origins of Christianity.
Oh, I do not think the intent of that chapter has anything to do with this question. It is only about Cerinthus. It does not bring into question that such heresies existed in Asia; rather, it simply questions whether we can be sure that Cerinthus had anything to do with them.
Ok, ''Cerinthus'' was only a name ''lightning rod'', à la Simon Magus. I agree fully with that.
There you go. Good image for it.

(I am not 100% certain that the chapter I referred to is correct. Just saying....)
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Giuseppe
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by Giuseppe »

I am thinking about the verse 7 of Mark 15:
A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising
There is some irony about the presence, as a prisoner, of the spiritual Christ (assuming he is Barabbas) among ''the rebels'' (the same Jews enemies of Christ) who had committed murder in THE uprising (a surprising determinative article that is clear reference to the Revolt par-excellence: the Revolt of 70 or 135 CE) ?

This may mean that until the 70 CE the true Christ was ''prisoner'' of the bad Judaizers. Preached by false apostles? The same enemies of Paul?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Re: Is Pilate really a positive figure in Mark? A case for Barabbas=the spiritual Christ

Post by John2 »

Giuseppe wrote:
... the Cerinthians (the first users of proto-Mark) ...
Where do you get the idea that the Cerinthians used proto-Mark (whatever that may be)? My understanding is that the Cerinthians used a form of Matthew.

Epiphanius Pan. 28.5.1:
For they [the Cerinthians] use the Gospel according to Matthew—in part and not in its entirety, but they do use it for the sake of the physical genealogy —and they cite the following as a proof-text, arguing from the Gospel, ' 'It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master.'
Pan. 30.3.7:
They [the Ebionites] too accept the Gospel according to Matthew. Like the Cerinthians and Merinthians, they too use it alone.
The book cited by Ben above (which I was just looking at myself, coincidentally) suggests that this is based on Epiphanius' reading of Irenaeus (AH 1.26.2):
Those who are called Ebionites agree that the world was made by God; but their opinions with respect to the Lord are similar to those of Cerinthus and Carpocrates. They use the Gospel according to Matthew only ...
Epiphanius supposed that Irenaeus was in this passage still speaking about the Ebionites, Cerinthus and Carpocrates.

https://books.google.com/books?id=zs43A ... ew&f=false
Maybe so, but what evidence is there for the idea that the Cerinthians used a version of Mark? I'm just curious and not suggesting that it's impossible.

My understanding is that his differences with the Ebionites regarding God is ascribed to his being "educated in the wisdom of the Egyptians," but that his views were otherwise in line with the Ebionites.

AH 1.26.1-2:
Cerinthus, again, a man who was educated in the wisdom of the Egyptians, taught that the world was not made by the primary God, but by a certain Power far separated from him, and at a distance from that Principality who is supreme over the universe, and ignorant of him who is above all.

He represented Jesus as having not been born of a virgin, but as being the son of Joseph and Mary according to the ordinary course of human generation, while he nevertheless was more righteous, prudent, and wise than other men. Moreover, after his baptism, Christ descended upon him in the form of a dove from the Supreme Ruler, and that then he proclaimed the unknown Father, and performed miracles. But at last Christ departed from Jesus, and that then Jesus suffered and rose again, while Christ remained impassible, inasmuch as he was a spiritual being.

Those who are called Ebionites agree [with orthodox Christians] that the world was made by God; but their opinions with respect to the Lord are similar to those of Cerinthus and Carpocrates.
And Davies notes that:
...the passages in Irenaeus dealing with Cerinthus make no explicit references to Mark. The opinions of Cerinthus are declared to be similar to those held by the Jewish Christians (the Ebionites) and they are stated to use only the Gospel of Matthew.

https://books.google.com/books?id=hXSmE ... rk&f=false
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