Acts 19:9: who is Tyrannus?

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Giuseppe
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Acts 19:9: who is Tyrannus?

Post by Giuseppe »

Acts 19:9
But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spoke evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the home of one Tyrannus.
In order to prove that Paul talked with Pagans, Georges Ory quotes Léon Herrmann in Cahier Renan N. 24 on saint Paul: ''home'' would be ''Temple'' and Tyrannus would be ''the god Men''. Who is the ''god Men'' ?

I have no idea.

I read from this:

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/19-9.htm
though by others it is taken to be an appellative, and to design some great person, who patronised the apostle, and in whose house he taught; the word "tyrant", being formerly used for a king, a prince, or nobleman; and so the Arabic version renders it, "in the dwelling house of one of the great men"; the chief of Asia, that were his friends, Acts 19:31 and so the Ethiopic version, "and he taught daily before the court and the governors": some copies read "Tyrannius"; mention is made of a philosopher whose name was "Tyrannion", who was so called, because he vexed and disturbed those that were brought up in the same school with him (f); this man it seems was a schoolmaster; there was one of his name a bishop of Tyre, a martyr under Dioclesian; and another whose name was Tyrannus, bishop of Antioch (g); Beza's ancient copy, and one of Stephens's, add, "from the fifth hour to the tenth"; as if he spent five hours in public teaching every day, and rest in his trade and devotion.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Acts 19:9: who is Tyrannus?

Post by Giuseppe »

Identified who is the god Men adored in Lystra under the name of "Tyrannus":

The clear Christian traits in the prayer need no elaboration. Strabo wrote that Amyntas was a follower of the god Mēn. Information about Mēn is available from an ancient inscription found at Smyrna (ISmyrna 753) near Ephesus which had a large Jewish population. Mēn was often associated with a cultic trapeza or table which cannot but remind one of the Last Supper. The Eucharist also reminds one of Attis of Pessinus who was associated with a sacramental meal of bread and wine.
L. L. Thompson writes that the god Mēn was linked to Pythag-oreanism.
http://www.ranajitpal.com/
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
perseusomega9
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Re: Acts 19:9: who is Tyrannus?

Post by perseusomega9 »

Image
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
-Giuseppe
Giuseppe
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Re: Acts 19:9: who is Tyrannus?

Post by Giuseppe »

Under this new knowledge:
Giuseppe wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:18 am ...Now we come to Apollos:

Acts 18:24-26:

24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

The thesis is that Apollos was the original actor of the same following episode, and not Paul:

Acts 19:8-10
8 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10 This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.

The evidence of the fact that Apollos "entered the synagogue" in Acts 19:8 and not, absolutely not, Paul, is an interpolation with repetition:

18:26:
He began to speak boldly in the synagogue.

19:8:
entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there

Hence the original text, without the naive interpolation replacing the false Paul in the place of the original Apollos, is the following:

24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue,

for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9 But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Apollos left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus. 10 This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.

This is the birth certificate of the Euhemerization of Jesus:

Apollos "taught about Jesus accurately": this means that immediately before him, the Christians know only vaguely the life of Jesus, not in the detail. Not "accurately".

In other words, they were without a Gospel. Apollos was the first to give them a Gospel.
...we can infer now the function of the "lecture hall of Tyrannus". We can know now why the reference (otherwise without utility) to "Tyrannus". Tyrannus is a minor pagan deity. The his temple replaces now the synagogue as the place where the Earliest Gospel is read and heard publicly.

This shows the his function: the radical separation of Christianity from Judaism started by the Earliest Gospel, in the moment itself when a Gospel Jesus was fabricated the first time.

By Apollos.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Acts 19:9: who is Tyrannus?

Post by Giuseppe »

Giuseppe wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:42 am Tyrannus is a minor pagan deity.

...we may with certainty infer that as a title it [Tyrannus] had already become naturalized in the 3rd century BC. For Men, a god from Asia Minor, the title turannos was so stereotyped that it became part of his name: as Men Tyrannus or Menotyrannus he was widely venerated in the first centures AD. It is also in parts of Asia Minor, especially in Lydia and Phrygia, that gods were often regarded as despots reigning supreme over a village or a temple domain.

https://books.google.it/books?id=1el5Dw ... us&f=false
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Charles Wilson
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Re: Acts 19:9: who is Tyrannus?

Post by Charles Wilson »

Hello Giuseppe --

I'm going to create a little minor mischief here - I'm even going to ask Huller to contribute and we all know how highly he thinks of anything I compose - but what follows looks to another understanding.

Acts 18: 28 (RSV):

[28] for he powerfully confuted the Jews in public, showing by the scriptures that the Christ was Jesus.

This is absolutely non-controversial for most of the Translations.
What about this next one?

Acts 18: 28 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English: https://www.biblehub.com/aramaic-plain- ... cts/18.htm ):

He was powerfully instructing contrary to the Jews before the crowds while showing from the Scripture concerning Yeshua, that he is The Messiah.

WAYDAMINNIT!

"That WHO was the Messiah?"

"...while showing from the Scripture concerning Yeshua, that he is The Messiah".

Perhaps this Apollo guy was making a different Claim. Let's expand this by quoting the verses immediately preceding this one:

[24] Now a Jew named Apol'los, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, well versed in the scriptures.
[25] He had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.
[26] He began to speak boldly in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aq'uila heard him, they took him and expounded to him the way of God more accurately.
[27] And when he wished to cross to Acha'ia, the brethren encouraged him, and wrote to the disciples to receive him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed,
[28] for he powerfully confuted the Jews in public, showing by the scriptures that the Christ was Jesus.

When rewriting stories, we may or may not have reason to accept the entire introduction. Here, the name is given. It may or may not be the "correct" name, given that it might be a rewrite of some Historical Event.

1. He was eloquent, a good speaker.
2. He knows Scripture, i.e. the "Old Testament". If he knew the "New Testament", what follows in later verses would not have made sense.

Verse 25 may be Deconstructed in a variety of ways in terms of "...being instructed in the way of the Lord..." with "...being fervent in spirit..." being a modifier with some baggage associated with it.

"...though he only knew the baptism of John."

Uh-Oh!!! Here is the surprise in the diaper. Acts tells us of the replacement of the Baptism of John with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. This Religious Ceremony of John is replaced BEFORE MANY HAVE EVEN HEARD OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

Didn't they get the Message? Didn't the "Jesus" character tell them of the coming of the Holy Spirit? Wasn't it in all the newspapers?

So this Apollo guy knows what he's talking about but NOT THE LATEST NEWS, which must be explained by 2 people, one apparently a Lady and one with the strange name of "Aquila". He doesn't doubt when it is all explained "more accurately".

He then hops a Shuttle Service Flight to Achaia and almost immediately begins helping disseminate the "More Complete" Gospel.
'N then he shows "...by the Scriptures, concerning Yeshua, that he IS the Messiah."

Something is very wrong here. The Replacement of the Baptism of John so quickly with Baptism of the Holy Spirit points to Historical Events. This New Religion appears to have had a Particular Form that needed to have a Replacement Part installed before the New Model could be released.

Is there a Candidate Historical Moment? Did I have to even ask?

Josephus, War..., 4, 9, 2:

"...Wherefore Vespasian put off at first his expedition against Jerusalem, and stood waiting whither the empire would be transferred after the death of Nero. Moreover, when he heard that Galba was made emperor, he attempted nothing till he also should send him some directions about the war: however, he sent his son Titus to him, to salute him, and to receive his commands about the Jews. Upon the very same errand did king Agrippa sail along with Titus to Galba; but as they were sailing in their long ships by the coasts of Achaia, for it was winter time, they heard that Galba was slain, before they could get to him, after he had reigned seven months and as many days. After whom Otho took the government, and undertook the management of public affairs. So Agrippa resolved to go on to Rome without any terror; on account of the change in the government; but Titus, by a Divine impulse, sailed back from Greece to Syria, and came in great haste to Cesarea, to his father. And now they were both in suspense about the public affairs, the Roman empire being then in a fluctuating condition, and did not go on with their expedition against the Jews, but thought that to make any attack upon foreigners was now unseasonable, on account of the solicitude they were in for their own country..."

Who is this "Agrippa" character? One person on this Site knows.

I respectfully request one Stephan Huller step up and tell us a bit of what he knows about this "King Agrippa". More specifically Stephan, does this sound like your Agrippa, the "Real Messiah"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

CW
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