Why Are Historicists So Certain That Jesus Existed?

[Secret Alias]

modern Hebrew גזיר מהעיתון = newspaper clippings

[Secret Alias]

I think you or anyone else would be hard pressed to find an example of גזירי meaning 'clubs.' It's a stretch. גזירה = decree. It means something cut off or something which cuts off. But club or clubs is a real stretch. I think it might have been translated like this because one can describe branches of a tree this way because they have been 'cut off' from the tree. But club is a bit much. I think that the wood or the shears 'pierce' the top of the head of the victim. The text isn't saying that a club 'bashed the brains' of the victim. Again Numbers 25:6, 7 is the clear precedent where a spear is used.

[Nathan]

I think you or anyone else would be hard pressed to find an example of גזירי meaning 'clubs.' It's a stretch. גזירה = decree. It means something cut off or something which cuts off. But club or clubs is a real stretch. I think it might have been translated like this because one can describe branches of a tree this way because they have been 'cut off' from the tree. But club is a bit much. I think that the wood or the shears 'pierce' the top of the head of the victim. The text isn't saying that a club 'bashed the brains' of the victim. Again Numbers 25:6, 7 is the clear precedent where a spear is used.

The gezirin of Sanhedrin 81b is the plural of gezer or gazir according to Jastrow's dictionary, which he defines as "piece (of wood), log, club."

He translates the phrase in question, "they split his skull with clubs."

The Artscroll translation: "and split open his skull with clubs."

The Soncino translation: "and split his skull with clubs."

[Secret Alias]

Yes Jastrow does have club but I still want to see other passages which have this meaning. I think it is a perplexing passage. Yoma has branches. I don't see another example of club. Jastrow's only example of 'clubs' is this passage as far as I can see. I think Numbers 25 is the precedent.

[Secret Alias]

Sokoloff - a superior authority to Jastrow - doesn't have 'clubs.' https://books.google.com/books?id=rlYSW ... 22&f=false

גזר n.m. cut piece, decree (→ √גזר ) 1. cut piece: pl. גזרייא TN Gen 15:17 [H הגזרים ]; 2. in גזר דין decree: גזר דין נפק the decree was promulgated Git 46d(44); ib. 50c(32); San 18b(4); מחתם הוא גזר דינא the decree is sealed FTP Gen 6:3; Ber 5c(37); ib. 39

[Secret Alias]

Nor is it in Tal - https://books.google.com/books?id=6K-9C ... ee&f=false

[Secret Alias]

And where gezirin is used in the Talmud it means 'pieces of wood' or 'blocks of wood' so in another passage - pieces of wood, as long as they do not trim them into proper blocks, will not become susceptible to Tum'ah

[Secret Alias]

The priests seem to have attacked with 'pieces of wood' not clubs.

[Secret Alias]

in another tractate Zevachim 62 the gezirin are two smooth blocks of wood and are as thick as the block used to level a heaping Se'ah

[Secret Alias]

Jastrow was just making up stuff - as he was wont to do - to explain perplexing passages. There were no 'clubs' in the temple but there were gerizin - i.e. smooth blocks of wood. This is stupid. The context is clearly the temple and its tabernacle.

In addition, custom was to bring with it a voluntary Elevated Offering. s One who vows to brings woods must bring at least two blocks ("gezirin") measuring one amah by one amah and "machak godesh se'ah" thick. One who vowed to bring single wood brings one of these. For those who brought it. that day is treated as a Yom Tov. hence no eulogies are said, fasting is prohibited and no melacha is performed.

https://books.google.com/books?id=X3oRA ... sQ6AEIKDAA