Finally, a historian enters the debate. Thanks DCH.DCHindley wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:55 pm
Origen, in several places, relates that he was aware of traditions that Josephus had himself said that the death of James the Just was the cause of the destruction of the city. Origen, Against Celsus 1.47b-d:b) Now he [Josephus] himself, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ, in seeking the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people, since they put Christ to death, who was a prophet, nevertheless says, being albeit against his will not far from the truth, that these disasters happened to the Jews as a punishment for the death of James the just, who was a brother of Jesus called Christ, the Jews having put him to death, although he was a man most distinguished for his justice.
This is also repeated in Against Celsus 2.13, and his Commentary On Matthew 13.55. However, none of these seem to reference anything about the nature of his death by throwing from a high place or dispatch by a club.
DCH
I always intended to get to Contr. Cels. 1.47 but I couldn't even get the mythicists to look up/let alone understand Eusebius, Book 2 chapter 23.
Let's proceed, shall we?
1. Origen is quoting from Josephus (source unknown) and comments that Josephus missed the deeper cause for the destruction of the temple. Although Josephus attributes it to the murder of James the Just, Origen says it was actually the death of Christ that caused the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple. Even though Origen does not source his quote from Josephus it is authentic to Origen.
2. Origen referencing the 18th book of Antiquities is pointing out that although Josephus did not believe in Christ, unwittingly Josephus acknowledges the existence of Jesus by confirming the compatriots of Jesus, that is, John the Baptist and James the Just.
3. Origen does not claim that Josephus wrote details in book 18 on the manner/method of death of James the Just in book 18. Instead he points out that Josephus acknowledges such a righteous well known man existed and by extension, therefore Jesus existed.
4. Origen writes as if this additional source by Josephus regarding James the Just is still readily available to Celsus and Ambrosius.
Sincerely,
John T