Markus Vinzent on 'Marcion the Jew'

[stephan happy huller]

I am an American. C'est la vérité.

[Peter Kirby]

The problem as always is that there are two many stupid people in North America.

I might have echoed this sentiment right up until I lived a while in Europe and realized that they are everywhere.

[steve43]

Huller wrote:
"Again, I recommend you actually look at the references cited by Vinzent in their original context and then like Alan Segal compare the critique of Tertullian (and Irenaeus) against the Marcionites with that of the rabbanites against the heretics who promote the two powers in heaven doctrine (so called by Segal). Then take note that Against Marcion III is a reworking of large sections of Against the Jews (or is it the other way around?). Then read Eznik of Kolb's allusion to the preference of the Marcionites for the Hebrew text of the Pentateuch over the LXX. Then look at De Recta in Deum Fide's reference to the Marcionite interest in the year 6000 from creation (apparently related in some way to the beginning of the gospel). Then notice Tertullian's statement in Book Two that Moses was greater than his god (once again a depreciation of the Jewish 'Lord' as opposed to the hero of the Jews). Then reflect upon Heschel's observation that the gospel's criticism of divorce is connected with the established opinion of the minim that Moses gave out commandments on his own authority and that only the ten commandments were from God. Similarly the parallels with Aquila (and alternatively Agrippa) with respect to circumcision being unnecessary owing to it not being included into the ten commandments. Then observe that Irenaeus and later authorities consistently criticize Marcion for dividing the godhead into powers of mercy and judgment (as did the early Jews like Philo and the rabbinic authorities). Similarly read Ephrem's rejection of the Marcionite understanding of the mountain of the transfiguration being associated with Moses and other patriarchs and being connected to the highest mountain (as Gerizim is understood to be among the Samaritans). "

Sounds like a lot of work.
What is your conclusion from all this in one brief sentence?

[Blood]

The problem as always is that there are two many stupid people in North America.

I might have echoed this sentiment right up until I lived a while in Europe and realized that they are everywhere.

Aye, and not enough people who know how to spell "too."

[Andrew]

That's what I was hinting at...he didn't seem to get it though (but maybe he just doesn't care because it doesn't really matter).

[stephan happy huller]

Yes the typo. I thought that was covered in my 'I am an American (it's true)' comment. Perhaps the first grade level French was over your head. I don't know.

[beowulf]

Did you feel the need to explain a trivial typo? You must be weakening. Has someone cut your hair recently?

[stephan happy huller]

Your (sic) right Rey. Married life doesn't agree with me.

[andrewcriddle]

Andrew,

I agree that the evidence that can be assembled can only support the 'Jewishness' of Marcionitism not the 'Jewishness' per se of Marcion. But how could a non-Jew be the founder of a Jewish heresy? He was a proselyte? We're down to a proselyte or a Jew. So the article might better have been entitled 'the Jewishness of Marcion' rather than 'Marcion the Jew.' But who's going to quibble with absolute genius? Not me. As I said, I could furnish the dear professor with enough new information to support a second article.

I have wondered whether the shadowy figure of Cerdo may have transmitted to Marcion ideas from esoteric Judaism.

Andrew Criddle

[Andrew]

stephan happy huller said:
Yes the typo. I thought that was covered in my 'I am an American (it's true)' comment. Perhaps the first grade level French was over your head. I don't know.

*cough* *cough* I guess Canadians are getting stupider two.