andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:32 pm
I'm pretty sure that the six points arose in a debate between the Roman Catholics and the Waldensians.
The Waldensians are quite different from the Cathars.
See
HC Lea
Andrew Criddle
The Poor Men of Lyons, , of the Waldenses.
55. In 1184, by a council held at Verona, Pope Lucius III confirmed the foregoing decree of Alexander III, and sent forth a bull, as follows: --
"Ecclesiastical justice could not show too much rigor in annihilating the heresies which now multiply in a large number of the provinces. Already has Rome braved the thunders of the holy see; and her intractable people have dared, from hatred of one person, to lay a sacrilegious hand upon our priests. But the day of vengeance is preparing; and, until we can return to those Romans the evils they have inflicted on us, we excommunicate all heretics, whatever may be their appellation. Among others, the Catharins, the Patarins, those who falsely call themselves the Humiliated, or the Poor of Lyons, as well as the Passagins, the Josephins, the Arnaudists; and, finally, all those wretches who call themselves Vaudois, or enemies of the holy see. We strike these abominable sectarians with a perpetual anathema; we condemn those who shall give them shelter or protection to the same penalties, and who shall call themselves Consoled, Perfect Believers, or by any other superstitious name.
"And as the severity of ecclesiastical discipline is sometimes despised and powerless, we order that
those who shall be convicted of favoring heretics, if they are clergy or monks, shall be despoiled of their sacerdotal functions, and of their benefices, and shall be abandoned to all the rigors of secular justice; if laymen, we order that they suffer the most horrid tortures, be proved by fire and sword, torn by stripes, and burned alive.
We add, by advice of the bishops, and on the remonstrances of the emperor and the lords, that every prelate shall visit, several times during the year, either in person or by his archdeacon, all the cities of his diocese, and particularly the places in which he shall judge that the heretics hold their assemblies. They shall cause the inhabitants, and especially the old men, women, and children, to be seized. They shall interrogate them to know if there are any Vaudois in their country, or people who hold secret assemblies, and who lead a life differing from that of the faithful. Those who shall hesitate to make denunciations, shall be immediately put to the torture.
"We order, besides, the counts, barons, rectors, and consuls of cities, and other places, to engage by oath, in accordance with the warning of the bishops, to persecute heretics and their accomplices, when they shall be so required to do by the Church; and to execute, with all their power, all that the holy see and the empire have appointed in regard to the crimes of heresy: otherwise, we declare them deprived of their offices and dignities, without the power ever again to hold any employment; and, moreover, they shall be excommunicated forever, and their property placed under interdict.
"The cities which shall resist our orders, or which, having been warned by the bishops, shall neglect to
pursue the heretics, shall be excluded from all commerce with other cities, and shall lose their rank and privileges. The citizens shall be excommunicated, noted with perpetual infamy, and as such declared unfit to fill any public or ecclesiastical function. All the faithful shall have the right to kill them, seize their goods, and reduce them to slavery."45
56. This bull had so little practical effect that the condemnation had to be repeated by the same pope, at a council held at Narbonne in the same year. And even this was so little effective that the Poor Men of Lyons, of the Waldenses, "agreed, about 1190, to take the chances of a disputation held in the cathedral of Narbonne, with Raymond of Daventry, a religious and God-fearing Catholic, as judge. Of course the decision went against them, and of course they were as little inclined as before to submit, but the colloquy has an interest as showing what progress at that period they had made in dissidence from Rome. The six points on which the argument was held were, first, that they refused obedience to the authority of pope and prelate; second, that all, even laymen, can preach; third, that, according to the apostles, God is to be obeyed rather than man; fourth, that women may preach; fifth, that masses, prayers, and alms for the dead are of no avail, with the addition that some of them denied the existence of purgatory; and sixth that prayer in bed, or in a chamber, or in a stable, is as efficacious as in a church."
Milton's sonnet "On the Late Massacre in Piedmont" (1655)
Peter Valdes (also known as Waldo) came into prominence in the last half of the 12th Century, as the leader of a religious group that came to be known as the Waldensians (or Waldenses). He was a rich merchant in Lyons, France, who around 1170 renounced his wealth in favor of a life of poverty, simplicity, and preaching. In this he was similar to a number of other medieval figures, like Saint Francis of Assisi (1181?-1226), who renounced a worldly life and ended up forming small communities dedicated to worship and service. Such persons and their followers often aroused the suspicion of church authorities. Sometimes, like the Franciscans, they were able to reach an accomodation. Waldo's lack of theological training, and his use of a local dialect Bible (instead of Saint Jerome's Vulgate Latin version, recognized by the Church), were soon complained of. The Waldensians sought papal approval from the Third Lateran Council (1179), but the outcome was that Waldo was forbidden to preach and, in 1184, declared a heretic and excommunicated. With time and persecution, the Waldensians departed further from Roman teaching. The rejected the authority of the pope, denied the existence of purgagory and the efficacy of prayers for the dead, criticized the veneration of saints and the adoration of the crucifix, and dispensed with certain of the seven sacraments. They also aroused alarum among secular authorities for refusing to swear oathes in court.
Waldensian communities sprang up in many places in Europe -- Spain, northern France, Flanders, Germany, Poland, southern Italy, Hungary -- but severe persecution (extending to active torture and execution) eventually reduced them to remote niches in the Cottian Alps of Italy and France. The partisans of the 16th-century Reformation recognized them as early defenders of their notion of true religion, and a series of conferences around the middle of the century resulted in their becoming in effect a branch of the Genevan (i.e., Calvinist) Church. This did not, of course, make them any less worthy as a target of Catholic repression. In the middle of the 17th Century, the Duke of Savoy unleashed a campaign to suppress the communities living in the Piedmont region of his domains. Milton himself may have had a hand in drafting the appeals sent by Oliver Cromwell to the Duke of Savoy urging him to end the persecution.
John Milton
http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~lyman/engl ... ssacre.htm
John Milton (1608-74)
On the Late Massacre in Piedmont
Avenge, O Lord, thy slaughtered saints, whose bones
Lie scattered on the Alpine mountains cold;
Even them who kept thy truth so pure of old,
When all our fathers worshiped stocks and stones,
Forget not: in thy book record their groans
Who were thy sheep, and in their ancient fold
Slain by the bloody Piedmontese, that rolled
Mother with infant down the rocks. Their moans
The vales redoubled to the hills, and they
To heaven. Their martyred blood and ashes sow
O'er all the Italian fields, where still doth sway
The triple Tyrant; that from these may grow
A hundredfold, who, having learnt thy way,
Early may fly the Babylonian woe.
