The Heresies Used Jewish Scriptures

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Secret Alias
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

The Heresies Used Jewish Scriptures

Post by Secret Alias »

I think this whole business about the Marcionites 'rejecting' Jewish scriptures is a bunch of nonsense or if it is true it represents the easy way to disprove the sect as a late development. Here is a clear testimony that the Basilideans also developed ideas and traditions from the Pentateuch:
The followers of Basilides refer "God visiting the disobedient unto the third and fourth generation (ἐπὶ τρίτην καὶ τετάρτην γενεὰν)" to reincarnations, but the followers of Valentinus maintain that the three places mean those on the left, while the "fourth generation (τετάρτην δὲ γενεὰν)" is their own seed, and "showing mercy unto thousands," refers to those on the right.(Ex Theod 28)
The first reference is to Deuteronomy 5.9 or some similar passage. The Valentinians seemed to have tempered that passage with the reference to Genesis 15.16 and the laws of the gerim. But clearly every heretical group made reference to ideas contained in the Pentateuch - even the Marcionites.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Stuart
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: The Heresies Used Jewish Scriptures

Post by Stuart »

Duh. You figured that out. You really should read about the Ophites and their understanding of Moses and the Red Sea. From various angles, many have argued that Christianity started as Gnostic, from Alexandria, the Egyptian branch of Judaism, which was more allegorical, while Judaism in the Palestinian region was more literal. There is a wealth of material on the subject. I suggest you read up on it before thinking you discovered something new.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift
Secret Alias
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Heresies Used Jewish Scriptures

Post by Secret Alias »

But the idea that Theodotos (let's call him 'gnostic A') comments upon Basilides (= 'gnostic B') and Valentinus (= 'gnostic C') all seem to make reference to the significance of the number four in this manner is quite interesting. Basilides certainly depreciated the god of the Jews much like the Marcionites. Both Marcion and Basilides used the Jewish scriptures, commented upon the Jewish scriptures, whatever and however you want to define it. It just seems that Basilides is the next oldest heresy. It just seems so inconceivable to imagine a non-Jewish or extra-Jewish Christian tradition. It doesn't seem to be anywhere in antiquity.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Heresies Used Jewish Scriptures

Post by Secret Alias »

What's the evidence that the Marcionites did not use the Pentateuch in this way. Show me the clearest testimony that the Marcionites didn't look to the Pentateuch for clues to the future or to understand the contemporary world. I would appreciate that.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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