Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:26 am

It is worth noting that Jews have always regarded חי as a noun rather than what it clearly is in the Pentateuch - an adjective or a verb - in part to allow for the gnostic speculation regarding a hypostasis 'life':

https://books.google.com/books?id=fBxAA ... un&f=false
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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:37 am

The apostles carry in their bodies the death of Jesus (τὴν νέκρωσιν τοῦ Ἰησου), so that the life of Jesus (ἡ ζωὴ τοῦ Ἰησου) may also be manifested in them (2Co 4:10). In the same way, they are being given up to death ‘for Jesus’ sake’ (διὰ Ἰησοῦν), so that ‘the life of Jesus’ may be manifested in their mortal flesh (2Co 4:11).

Hurtado suggests that the suspended form Iη may have been intended to signify an association between ‘Jesus’ and the Hebrew word ‘חי’) ‘life’) since both have the numerical value 18.107 I see a direct relationship between the Name Christology around the name ‘Jesus’ and its subsequent scriptural materialization. https://www.academia.edu/3362169/The_Qu ... ans_2_9-11
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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by hakeem » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:44 am

iskander wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:22 pm


Jesus was crowned ( exaltation). Like Napoleon Bonaparte was ---and many other successful men and women


exaltation
formal the act of raising someone to a higher rank or more powerful position
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... exaltation
Jesus was crowned? You mean Jesus was exalted when he was crucified as a criminal? If Jesus did live and was crucfied he was "crowned" with death.
What success! What powerful position! :lol:

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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:51 am

Συμεων = (a) שמעון 'he hears' (b) סִמָנִין סימן 'sign' very much like the Greek spelling σημεῖον. Both etymologies are referenced in one account of the Simonians. Notice the etymology is even suggested in the account of Acts:
Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he stayed constantly with Philip. And seeing signs (σημεῖα) and great miracles happening, he was amazed.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by iskander » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:42 am

hakeem wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:44 am
iskander wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:22 pm


Jesus was crowned ( exaltation). Like Napoleon Bonaparte was ---and many other successful men and women


exaltation
formal the act of raising someone to a higher rank or more powerful position
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... exaltation
Jesus was crowned? You mean Jesus was exalted when he was crucified as a criminal? If Jesus did live and was crucfied he was "crowned" with death.
What success! What powerful position! :lol:
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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by Irish1975 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:49 am

lsayre wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:52 am
If he was known as Jesus from the beginning, it seems odd that Jesus would be the exalted name. And if Jesus was the name, the word "of" (highlighted in red) does not seem as if it should be present. If the exalted Jesus no longer bears the name Jesus, what name does he now bear?
Perhaps, then, he was not known as Jesus from the beginning. The divine or angelic being who had been the equal of God, but then emptied himself and assumed the form of a slave, in the "likeness" of human beings, is in this hymn just as nameless as the suffering servant (slave) in Isaiah 53. The name Jesus (and I don't think the genitive or "of" locution makes a difference here) is bestowed only after the savior returns to heaven in exaltation, rather than (as in Luke 1:31 and all of Christian tradition) before his human birth.

Such an interpretation seems to strengthen the mythicist theory.

Thanks for drawing attention to the question of the naming of Jesus in this hymn.

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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by Stefan Kristensen » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:11 am

I think that one mainstream scholoarly view makes sense, that the answer to the question of this thread is found in 2:11: the "name that is above every name" is "κυριος", "Lord", i.e. the concrete name of God. I think the idea is, that "Lord" in 2:11 carries the same doubleness as in the LXX. A designation of authority and at the same time a proper name. A whole bunch of conceptions are tied together here, because the very concept of 'name' includes wide spectrum of meaning. Apart from being a simple calling (or writing) sound that refers to a person it also means 1) reputation and 2) authority. The reputation of God, as with any 'patron' in the honor/shame society of the Mediterranean world, is his honor, or 'glory'. Consider also the English term 'renown' from the French word for 'name'. God's 'name' is tightly connected with his 'glory' as well as his deeds. Those are typically in the OT either 1) creation with the subduing of the disorder and chaos and the life-giving sustaining of creation, or 2) the salvation of Israel out of Egypt and into the promised land. For the Christians, God's "mighty deeds" now was the same two ideas converged into one: the raising of Jesus from the dead, truly a mighty deed.

Also one's name carries one's authority, as in the expression 'in the name of the law' or 'in the name of the king' or one's signature on a document. Invoking the name of a deity means invoking his or her power. Using the name of a person of deity means wielding the authority of that person or deity, in principle at least. A centurion can act in the name of Rome, or in the name of the emperor, i.e. he uses power by Rome's authority. Similarly, Jesus can use power with God's authority, but that is the life-giving power of the creator, most often called "δυναμις". For this very comparison see Matt 8. That God "bestowed" (χαριζομαι) upon Jesus the "name that is above every name" is thus a close parallel to "God highly exalted him". It is almost nothing more than a parallellism in 2:9. I think that "bestowed upon him the name above every name" can understood as "bestowed upon him the authority above every authority". It is significant that he is not merely 'given' a name, which would be διδωμαι, but "bestowed" (χαριζομαι).

So this expresses the full way that Jesus can now act in the name of God, he is his plenipotentiary, he has been given authority from God. Having God's name is also an expression of sonship, a family name, or 'adoption'. He is the heir to the rulership of God. So the glory is to God "the father", Phil 2:11.

Cf. Heb 1:

Heb. 1,1 ¶ Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets,
Heb. 1,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.
Heb. 1,3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of God’s very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Heb. 1,4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
Heb. 1,5 ¶ For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
Heb. 1,6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Heb. 1,7 Of the angels he says, ... etc.

Jesus' sonship means he has "inherited" God's name, like the son of a ruler inherits the rulership through the family name. Cf. also Matt 28:

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
(Matt 28:18-20)

This "name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" is not a concrete name, it means "authority". The father, son and spirit are all one, in the same way as a family, the Christian spiritual family, but it is Jesus who has the authority.

So even though Jesus has his own name, Jesus, he has been bestowed with the authority of God by receiving his name in the meaning of authority. I think it means that Jesus has been bestowed various central divine attributes of God, YHWH, that was connected with the very name of YHWH. I think what is meant in Phil 2:9-11 is that the divine power that recided also in the sacred name of God, the tetragrammaton, was transferred to the person of Jesus. The person of Jesus has received authority of the power that recided in the name YHWH. Which means that Jesus' own name now invokes the power of God that previously was invoked by God's own name, YHWH.

So when the Christians, in turn, invoke Jesus' name, they can use his authority (act in the name of Jesus), and that is the authority to use or channel the power of God the creator, his life-giving power, the δυναμις. But only if one is "of Christ" or "in Christ" can one wield Jesus' divine authority, cf. Acts 19:11-20.

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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by Irish1975 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:35 am

Stefan Kristensen wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:11 am
I think that one mainstream scholoarly view makes sense, that the answer to the question of this thread is found in 2:11: the "name that is above every name" is "κυριος", "Lord", i.e. the concrete name of God. I think the idea is, that "Lord" in 2:11 carries the same doubleness as in the LXX. A designation of authority and at the same time a proper name.
Interesting, but I'm not with you. I don't understand what makes a well-defined word like "kyrios," which is clearly a title, into a name. The Israelites called their god by his title rather than by his unspeakably sacrosanct name "YHWH." That doesn't make "kyrios" into a name. Just because I call someone "boss" all the time doesn't mean that "boss" is now that person's name, even for me. It just means that I address him through a title rather than a name. And we should not ignore "so that at the name of Jesus" in verse 10, which leads to the confession having the form [name = title], "Jesus is kyrios," a triumphant affirmation, rather than [name = name], e.g. "Cephas is Peter." It seems inescapable to me that "Jesus" is the sought for name in this hymn.

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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by Stefan Kristensen » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:39 pm

Irish1975 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:35 am
Stefan Kristensen wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:11 am
I think that one mainstream scholoarly view makes sense, that the answer to the question of this thread is found in 2:11: the "name that is above every name" is "κυριος", "Lord", i.e. the concrete name of God. I think the idea is, that "Lord" in 2:11 carries the same doubleness as in the LXX. A designation of authority and at the same time a proper name.
Interesting, but I'm not with you. I don't understand what makes a well-defined word like "kyrios," which is clearly a title, into a name. The Israelites called their god by his title rather than by his unspeakably sacrosanct name "YHWH." That doesn't make "kyrios" into a name. Just because I call someone "boss" all the time doesn't mean that "boss" is now that person's name, even for me. It just means that I address him through a title rather than a name. And we should not ignore "so that at the name of Jesus" in verse 10, which leads to the confession having the form [name = title], "Jesus is kyrios," a triumphant affirmation, rather than [name = name], e.g. "Cephas is Peter." It seems inescapable to me that "Jesus" is the sought for name in this hymn.
Yes, the title "lord" was the expected and the proper title for any king or person of authority, and so of course the Christians refer to Jesus as "lord", nothing remarkable about that. But I think the idea is that in this particular context, a certain aspect of this title for Jesus is brought to the fore, i.e. the 'coincidence' that this same word is also a circumlocution for God's sacred name. But it is more than a circumlocution. I don't think I'll ever make up my mind about the Phil. Hymn, and I also think that the name "Jesus" of course has to do with "the name that is above every name". But I think it has to do also with "kyrios" and the name of God. Concerning the "kyrios" idea, here are some thoughts of mine.

You ask what makes a well-defined word like "kyrios," which is clearly a title, into a name. Of course, it isn't a name as such. But it isn't just a title either, when it pertains to God. It is a Greek word, and the standard Bible for the Christians and for most Jews was the Greek bible, the LXX, and it is here the word is used to translate YHWH in the Hebrew text. Now, generally throughout the LXX the translators clearly wanted "kyrios" to be more than just a title and to preserve the feel of the proper name. The result is that "kyrios" actually appears as a name alot of the time, i.e. it preserves the anarthrous state of the Hebrew proper name (YHWH). We can actually observe the same phenomenon in our modern Bibles, because the modern translations of the OT have typically continued the tradition of using the circumlocution for "YHWH", but instead of preserving the anarthrous state in order to preserve the uniqueness of the word, small caps are used. "The LORD", with "LORD" in small caps.

In this way, then, it is a title, but not just a title. This word stands out in the text. In the LXX it also stands out, just not in a textual way but a grammatical way. Here are some examples of what it looks like in the LXX:
"And Lord said to Abram"
"and Abram built an altar to Lord"
"this time I will praise Lord"
"and Lord appeared to Abram"
"And God spoke to Moses and said: 'I am Lord, and being their God I appeared to Abram, Isaac and Jacob, and my name, Lord, I did not make known to them'" (Ex 6:2-3)
"I will pass by in front of you and I will call upon my name, Lord, in front of you" (Ex 34:19)
"Jesus Christ is Lord" (Phil 2:11)

The Greek word "kyrios" is a title and not a proper name, but in the right context it in a certain way carries the weight of the sacred name of God. What if the author of the Philippian Hymn wanted to express the notion that Jesus' exaltation means that he has been endowed with God's authority? Now, in the absence of God his name carries his authority, that's an important aspect of the concept of name (for example 'in the name of the king'). This is also the idea concerning the temple that we find especially in Deuteronomistic theology: God doesn't dwell in houses built by hands, and therefore the temple is where his "name" dwells, which means that prayers and sacrifices there will be effective (e.g. Deut 12:11; 1 King 8:29; 9:3).

If God ever wanted to confer his authority upon somebody else than himself, as in the case with Jesus, couldn't that be expressed in the way of the Phil. Hymn? The name of God has moved from the temple into Jesus. Anyone who needs to "call upon the name of YHWH", i.e. cultic communication, will now need to do it through Jesus, not the temple cult. So now the Christians have access to Jesus' authority by Jesus' name. Jesus is absent, so in his name, "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" or "Lord Jesus" or "Jesus of Nazereth" or whatever, is his authority - but crucially is the authority that has been transferred from God, i.e. from the name of God to the name of Jesus. So Jesus' name has now been endowed with new authority. The moment Jesus was transferred from a human being to an exalted being, that's the moment his name was also transferred and endowed with authority. This analogy will suffice to explain my theory: You have an old car, but someone comes along and pimps your ride. It is now the same car but also a new car. You exclaim: I have been given the car that is above every car! Jesus didn't get a new name, his name was renewed, as it were. Or pimped, if you will.

If the author of the Phil. Hymn wanted to express this idea, that Jesus' name became hugely powerful at the moment of his exaltation in the same way the name of any person becomes powerful the moment the person becomes powerful, then wouldn't it look like this? God "gave him the name above every name", then, means that God gave him authority to use his power, the power which had hitherto been available only through the name of God. God gave him his own name, and therefore when Jesus is called "lord" it is more than a title, it is the authority of the name of God, transferred to Jesus.

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Re: Phillipians 2:9-11, What name is given in exaltation?

Post by MrMacSon » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:57 pm

.
FWIW, this was posted on a reddit forum recently pertaining to a thread about Hebrew (and thus Judaism), but I think it is an interesting reflection about how different entities or versions of entities have been portrayed -

OP may also be referring to the distinction between LORD, Lord, and LORD in some Bible translations (.. the last three letters being in small caps), Usually the first translates YHWH, and the other two translate Adonai and Elohim.

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Not quite. LORD (where the three last letters are in small caps) represents YHWH, just as LORD in all caps. Elohim is translated "God" or "gods". GOD in all caps or with "OD" in small caps represents YHWH whenever YHWH follows Adonai.

Yahweh = "(the) LORD"

Yahweh Elohim = "(the) LORD God"

Adonai Yahweh = "(the) Lord GOD"

Adonai = "(the) Lord"

Elohim = "God" or "gods".

El = "God"

Eloah = "God" or "god"

El Shaddai = "God Almighty"

El Elyon = "God Most High"

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