The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:34 pm

“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:17 pm

LXX Αδδαμιν
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:01 am

Then you see at once that 'Pauline theology' in light of this discovery becomes less of an 'abstract theology' and instead a commentary on the gospel. Example 1:
The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit—although this heretic in his folly has refused to let it be
so, for instead of 'last Adam' he has written 'last Lord', fearing that if he treated the Lord as the last Adam we might claim that as the last Adam Christ belongs to the same God as the first Adam. But the falsification is evident. For why 'first Adam', if not because there is also a last Adam? The only things that admit of numerical order are those of equal rank or of the same name or substance or author; for even if in things opposed to one another there can be one first and the other last, they do belong to the same author. If however the author too is a different one, even he can be referred to as 'the last': yet that which he has become the author of is a first thing, but a last thing if it is on an equality with the first. But it is not on an equality with the first, because it does not belong to the same author. In the same manner he will be confuted by the designation 'man'. The first man, he says, is of the earth, earthy: the second is the Lord from heaven. Why 'the second', if he is not a man, as the first was? Or perhaps also the first is 'the Lord', if the second is. But it is enough that if in the gospel he presents Christ as the Son of man, he cannot deny that as man, and in this manhood, he is Adam.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:38 pm

The location of the first scene in the Marcionite gospel - http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/sbf ... udocia.pdf - the ruins of St Adam's monastery, clearly the connection between Adumim and Adam was not my innovation.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:41 pm

The apparent Marcionite interest in Adam (uncovered here according to geography) was shared by Tatian:

Seceding from the Church, and being elated and puffed up by a conceit of his teacher, as if he were superior to the rest, he formed his own peculiar type of doctrine. Imagining certain invisible AEons like those of Valentinus, and denouncing marriage as defilement and fornication in the same way as Marcion and Saturninus, and denying the salvation of Adam as an opinion of his own.--IRENAEUS: Adv. Hoer., i. 28.

Tatian attempting from time to time to make use of Paul's language, that in Adam all die, but ignoring that "where sir, abounded, grace has much more abounded."--IRENAEUS: Adv. Heres., iii. 37.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:53 pm

Those who have studied the church of St Adam link Eusebius's comments about the Adamiani (= those of Adam) with this church:

52. (r) Adamians, by some called Adamizers, whose doctrine is not true but ridiculous. (2) For they assemble stark naked, men and women alike, and conduct their readings, prayers and everything else in that condition. This is because they are supposedly single and continent and, since they regard their church as Paradise, do not allow marriage.

Against Adamians * 1 32, but 52 of the series

1,1 The four-footed animal with an underground den which tunnels in the earth and has its burrow deep inside it, is called a mole. All its characteristics are like those of a small puppy for it has the < same > round shape, and it has no sight at all. (2) It is a destructive creature which roots out people’s crops from below, especially every cucumber bed and the sharp-tasting plants — onions, garlic, purse-tassels and the like — and lilies and the rest. (3) But if it actually gets onto the surface during its tunneling, in the open air, or if it is hunted and caught by men, it is an object of ridicule to everyone who hunts the creature.

1,4 With all this I am trying to say of the sect with which I now have to do that it is blind in heart and stupid, creates desolation for itself
and undermines the ground it stands on, and injures the roots of many, < I mean > of those who have happened on it. (5) But if it should be spied
by the wise, it gives them a good laugh. As the creature we spoke of is mocked for its blindness, < and > cannot find its hole because of its lack of sight, so is this sect.

1,6 For they have adopted the name of Adam. I say this because I have heard it reported by many; I have not found it in any treatises, and have certainly not met any such people. (7) And so, since many have spoken of the sect, I consider it worth mentioning. And this is why I was right in
comparing it with that blind animal which is not readily seen by men; it is hidden in the earth and does its damage below.

1,8 Now it is completely absurd and I considered not including it at all. However, as long as there is even a rumor of it, it can do the wise hearer
no harm to know about all the tares the devil has sown in the world. (9) For whether or not there is such a sect, since I have heard many say that there is I think it is sensible to speak of it for safety’s sake and not leave it out, even if it has been dissolved and is no longer in being. For I am not certain whether it still exists or not.

1,10 But why should I spend a long time on my prologue to the description of it? I shall begin my account of the ridicule, or rather, of the sorrow.
For it is susceptible of the two things at once, ridicule and sorrow — < sorrow > at the devil’s way of planting contempt for God’s creature in
the human mind; ridicule of those who can neither see, nor conceive of anything sensible.

2,1 In the first place, they say that these people build their churches — or dens and caves; that is what I would call the meetings of the sects — in heated rooms, and that they heat them from below so that there will be hot air to warm the congregation in the chamber inside. (2) And when they come in they have people to watch the clothes, like cloak-room attendants, stationed at the doors. And they each, whether man or woman, undress outside as they come in, and enter with their whole bodies as naked as the day they were born. And their recognized leaders and teachers all sit stark naked, some in front and some in back, here and there in no particular order.

2,3 They are all called “continent,” if you please, and make a boast of it — and “virgins,” as they delude themselves into thinking they are — and
they have their readings and all the rest of their service naked. (4) But if it appears that one of them has “fallen into transgression,” as they put it, they do not admit him any more. They say that he < is > Adam after eating from the tree, and condemn him to expulsion from their church as though from Paradise. For they think that their church is Paradise, and that they themselves are Adam and Eve.

2.5 Why do they heat the room, then — to keep from getting a chill? Adam and Eve didn’t live in a house with a furnace and weren’t oppressed by any heat, and no cold afflicted them. (6) They had the purest of air, temperately dispensed to them by God < with > all mildness, neithesharpened by the rigor of cold, nor enervated by summer’s wretched heat. The country had been set aside for an immortal abode, very < well > made by God, filled with gladness and well-being; and as I said, it got neither cold nor hot. Since the Adamians lack these things, it is plain that they are a joke.

3,1 Next let us look at another way of exposing their whole imposture. Adam and Eve were not naked for one hour; they were always naked “and
were not ashamed.” 2 But the nakedness of these people is not from lack of shame, even if they themselves think so; they are naked for the sake of
an insatiable pleasure which works its enchantment on the pupils of the eyes. (2) The modesty commended in all the sacred scriptures has been
taken from them and the words of the prophet are truly fulfilled, “The appearance of an harlot hath been given thee, who hast been shameless with all.” 3

3.3 But after that hour they resume their clothes outside, and [so] they cannot be Adam. Adam and his wife were not furnished clothing at the
outset. They sewed fig leaves together first, and then they were given skin tunics, and so, after a considerable part of their lives, “the manifold wisdom of God” 4 endowed them with the knowledge of clothing.

3.4 These people will also be jeered at in every way because, in calling themselves Adam and Eve, they are lying about themselves, and yet at
the same time telling the truth. (5) For it is plain from many indications that they are not Adam, as I have shown. But that they are mocked by
the spiritual serpent is plain from their false symbolism, their nakedness, shame and absurdity.

3.6 It is not worth my while to make a big thing of their refutation. To kill a beast of their sort one does not need weapons of war or heavy armor; (7) it is dispatched with a little stick. Often, when it has been pulled from its den it is merely left alone and dies of itself, laughed and
jeered at with nowhere to run to — as these people, when they are caught, are put to shame by their ridiculous absurdity, unseemly behavior and
silly religion.

3,8 But now, as we prepare to look into the rest, let us pray the Lord once more for his assistance in finding out the rest and refuting them, and for our salvation and that of our readers.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:07 pm

I think this solidifies my theory. The Tatianists were connected with this Church of St Adam on the road between Jericho and Jerusalem
2,1 He (Tatian) too teaches the same doctrines as the ancient sects. And in the first place, he claims that Adam cannot be saved. 12 And he preaches continence, regards matrimony as fornication and seduction, and claims that marriage is no different from fornication but the same thing. 13 Thus he adopted his deceitful style of life in the guise of continence and continent behavior, like a ravening wolf putting a sheep’s fleece on and deceiving his dupes with the temporary disguise. (10) He celebrates mysteries too in imitation of the holy church, but uses only water in these mysteries. 14

2,4 He too will collapse in every way with his inconsistent teaching. I believe that both he and his school have been snuffed out already and come to an end. For where are there not arguments to refute someone like this? (5) First, < it must be said to him too > — as I have explained already, and < said to > the sects which make such claims — that there cannot be many first principles which are generative of a succession of generated principles.

(6) The many principles will turn out to be one, < as > the effects of the one real cause of them all. And there cannot be many first principles other
than the one which has been the cause of these, and all things must be traced to the one sole monarchy. And this man’s attempt to persuade has fallen flat, since it is falsehood, not truth, and can have no persuasiveness. For the whole of his teaching is foolish.

2,7 And if Adam, the lump, cannot be saved, neither can any < product of > the lump be saved. For if the one who was formed first and made from virgin soil will have no part in salvation, how will things begotten of him obtain salvation?

3,1 For Tatian will prove to be contradicting himself in two ways. Fie claims that matrimony is not from God, but is fornication and uncleanness — and yet he thinks that he, the child of matrimony, born of a woman and the seed of a man, can be saved! (2) In turn, then, he has demolished his own blasphemy against matrimony If he, the result of a marriage, will obtain salvation, then marriage is not fornication whatever he may choose to say, since it produces the ones who have a part in salvation.

3,3 But if his assertion that marriage is unlawful can be proved, then all the more will Adam be saved. Adam was no product of marriage; he
was fashioned by the hand of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as was said to the Son by the holy Father himself, “Let us make man in our image and after our likeness.” 15 (4) And why can Adam, of whom you despair, not be saved when, on coming into the world, our Lord Jesus Christ himself raised the dead in their actual bodies after their deaths — like Lazarus, and the widow’s son, and the daughter of the ruler of the synagogue? (5) And if it was not he himself who fashioned Adam from earth at the beginning, why did he spit on the ground, make clay, anoint the eyes of the man born blind, and make him see — (6) to show that he himself, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, was his fashioner and by applying the clay was adding the missing part to the defective place in the man born blind? He has plainly done this to repair the defective part.

3,7 But again, Tatian, if it is the Lord who both fashioned Adam and then destroys the man he fashioned first but saves the others, how stupid
of you! (8) To the best of your ability you are attributing inability to the Lord , if he was unable to save his first-fashioned — who had been expelled from Paradise for one transgression, had been subjected to no light discipline, had spent his life in sweat and toil and lived opposite Paradise to remind him of his good life there — if he was unable to save him through his repentance <at the end>.

3,9 < Or else you are attributing cruelty to the Lord>, if he was able to save Adam but showed no mercy. Why did Christ descend even to the underworld? Why did he take his three day sleep before he arose? Where is the application of “that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living?” 16 Lord of which “living and dead,” if not of those who stand in need of his aid on earth and under it? (10) And how can that which comes
from the lump not be holy if the lump itself is not holy, as we find in the holy apostle? For this same holy apostle says of Eve too, “She shall be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith and righteousness.” 17

4. 1 And much can be said about this — just as, to everyone with sense, the obvious blasphemy and clouded thinking of Tatian and his Tatianist
namesakes will be plain. (2) As for them, I have gone briefly over the kind of bites they inflict — harmful ones, like mosquito bites — and have healed them with the Lord’s truth and power, applying a salve of the Lord’s teaching to people who have been bitten by Tatian’s assertions. Lor the Lord himself says, “I am not come but for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 18 (3) And thus he said in parables that a man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, the man he also said fell among thieves, to show that the sheep is also the person who went down from Jerusalem — the one who fell from the greater glory to diminution, and the one who was drawn away from the one commandment of his true shepherd, and went astray. (4) We thus believe that the holy Adam, < our > father, is among the living. Lor his sake and the sake of us all, his descendants, Christ came to grant amnesty to whose who had always known him and not strayed from his divinity, but were detained in Hades for their lapses — an amnesty through repentance for those who were still in the world, one through mercy and deliverance to those who were in Hades.

5.1 And so we must be surprised at someone (like Tatian) who knows — as I too have found in the literature — that our Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on Golgotha, nowhere else than where Adam’s body lay buried. 19 (2) Lor after leaving Paradise, living opposite it for a long time and growing old, Adam later came and died in this place, I mean Jerusalem, and was buried there, on the site of Golgotha. (3) This is probably the way the place, which means “Place of a Skull,” got its name, since the contour of the site bears no resemblance to a skull. (4) Neither is it on some peak so that this can be interpreted as a skull, as we say of < the > head’s position on a body. Nor is it on a height. (5) And indeed, it is no higher than the other “places” either. Opposite it is the Mount of Olives, which is higher; and Gibeon, eight milestones off) is the highest (of the three). Even the height which was once in Zion but has now been leveled was itself taller
than Golgotha.

5,6 Why the name “Of the Skull” then, unless because the skull of the first-formed man had there and his remains were laid to rest there, and so it had been named “Of the Skull”? (7) By being crucified above them our Lord Jesus Christ mystically showed our salvation, through the water and blood that flowed from him through his pierced side — at the beginning of the lump beginning to sprinkle our forefather’s remains, (8) to show us too the sprinkling of his blood for the cleansing of our defilement and that of any repentant soul; and to show, as an example of the leavening and cleansing of the filth our sins have left, the water which was poured out on the one who lay buried beneath him, for his hope and the hope of us his descendants.
While it is not explicit I think the reader can see that - in light of all we have shown - Epiphanius is criticizing the Tatianic understanding that Adam was healed by Jesus at the site of the church at Adumim. He is arguing from Origen's understanding (how ironic!) that Golgotha is the place where Adam was buried. He is using it to counter an unsaid tradition associating the place where the 'Good Shepherd parable/beginning of the Marcionite gospel' took place as the place associated with Adam. There can be no other way.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:11 pm

Adam among the Ebionites:

For some of them even say that Adam is Christ — the man who
was formed first and infused with God’s breath. 12 (4) But others among
them say that he is from above; created before all things, a spirit, both
higher than the angels and Lord of all; and that he is called Christ, the
heir of the world there. 13 But he comes here when he chooses, 14 as he came
in Adam and appeared to the patriarchs clothed with Adam’s body. And
in the last days the same Christ who had come to Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob, came and donned Adam’s body, and appeared to men, was cruci-
fied, rose and ascended. (6) But again, when they choose to, they say, “No!
The Spirit — that is, the Christ — came to him and put on the man called
Jesus.” 15 And they get all giddy from making different suppositions about
him at different times.

and again:

34.6 But I have already said how each of them palms off something
different about Christ. Ebion himself did at one time, by saying that he
originated as a mere man from sexual intercourse. But at other times the
Ebionites who derive from him say that Christ has a heavenly power from
God, “the Son,” and that the Son puts Adam on and takes him off when
convenient. By the power of God I have refuted their various opinions.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by andrewcriddle » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:54 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:53 pm
Those who have studied the church of St Adam link Eusebius's comments about the Adamiani (= those of Adam) with this church:
Epiphanius not Eusebius

Andrew Criddle

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:01 am

Yes that was my slip up. I am sick with a cold. Brain not working properly. FWIW here's where I am at with this. There is no way to reconcile the statement (a statement I haven't yet read in full) with our canonical gospels. It seems to agree with what is said in various sources about the Marcionite gospel about a descent into Judea. The 'parable' of the Good Samaritan never seemed to me to be the original form of this 'pericope' (God I hate that term). There is a consistent reading of this 'event' (if I can use that term) that seems to tie it with Adam. One 'dimension' of the agreement between the sources seems to involve the location of the event as occurring at a place called 'Adam.' Christ's relationship with Adam is very important to Pauline theology. At present it seems as if Paul has invented this relation between Adam and Christ our of his own imagination and the gospel stands independent of that invention. But we have a strong tradition among the Marcionites that Paul invented the gospel too. Are the two things related? It seems so. It seems as if the Pauline epistles were originally conceived as a commentary on a gospel which no longer exists. In this scenario the appearance from heaven of Christ from heaven is directly connected with 'Adam' living on the ground. Adam is Christ's doppleganger, his heavenly twin and his 'rescue' at the hands of the robbers (= the demons/world rulers) sets the stage for the narrative/journey that follows.

What we would have before us is a gospel which on the surface at least resembles the gospel associated with Mark in Papias - i.e. a narrative where the stories are in the wrong order. This gospel would immediately be associated with Tatian because of the emphasis in Patristic sources that Adam, in his tradition, wasn't understood to have been saved (i.e. Adam wasn't in heaven with the creator). Adam it would appear was wondering in the desert near the border between Judea and Edom. The parallel now between Jesus and Esau (with a spelling in Syriac sources which is very similar) is immediately noteworthy. It appears now that Adam and Eve were separated from the beginning and wandering the face of the earth. Adam was now in the desert. Eve's location is immediately unclear but the association with Mary Magdalene is obvious. Note that the heretics in Irenaeus have an 'inner narrative' of a divine pair (male/female) represented by Judas and Mary that seems to resemble Adam and Eve.

Why Jesus would be identified or associated with the 'Samaritan' if he immediately appeared from heaven is not immediately clear. Ephrem mentions an understanding where Jesus comes down a 'high mountain' that stretched to the heavens which appears to be Gerizim. But why exact this descent was unmentioned or allowed for Jesus's 'first appearance' in Judea isn't at all apparent.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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