The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:28 am

The information for that comes from Tertullian principally. Tertullian and Epiphanius seem to show that the Marcionite gospel resembled the gospel of Luke and this is explicitly confirmed by Irenaeus before them. Nevertheless Irenaeus - the apparent source of the claim - also says that Marcion's gospel begins with Jesus descending in Judea not Galilee. There are other supporting testimonies (itemized somewhere by Ben in this forum). So there are really two models for reconstructing the Marcionite gospel.

1. as some sort of proto-Luke or neo-Luke gospel with descent in Capernaum
2. as a gospel with a different ordering than the synoptics

I think the emphasis on rescuing Adam in Edom is purely Marcionite, purely Pauline and makes sense.
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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:39 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:28 am
The information for that comes from Tertullian principally. Tertullian and Epiphanius seem to show that the Marcionite gospel resembled the gospel of Luke and this is explicitly confirmed by Irenaeus before them. Nevertheless Irenaeus - the apparent source of the claim - also says that Marcion's gospel begins with Jesus descending in Judea not Galilee. There are other supporting testimonies (itemized somewhere by Ben in this forum).
This is what I have so far:

Irenaeus, Against Heresies 1.27.2: Succedens autem ei Marcion Ponticus, adampliavit doctrinam, impudorate blasphemans eum, qui a lege et prophetis annuntiatus est Deus ; malorum factorem et bellorum concupiscentem et inconstantem quoque sententia et contrarium sibi ipsum dicens. Iesum autem ab eo Patre, qui est super mundi fabricatorem Deum, venientem in Iudaeam temporibus Pontii Pilati praesidis, qui fuit procurator Tiberii Caesaris, in hominis forma manifestatum his, qui in Iudaea erant, dissolventem prophetas et legem et omnia opera eius Dei, qui mundum fecit, quem et Cosmocratorem dicit. Et super haec id quod est secundum Lucam evangelium circumcidens et omnia, quae sunt de generatione Domini conscripta auferens, et de doctrina sermonum Domini multa auferens, in quibus manifestissime conditorem huius universitatis suum Patrem confitens Dominus conscriptus est; semetipsum esse veraciorem, quam sunt hi, qui evangelium tradiderunt, apostoli, suasit discipulis suis; sed particulam Evangelii tradens eis. Similiter autem et apostoli Pauli epistolas abscidit, auferens quaecunque manifeste dicta sunt ab Apostolo de eo Deo qui mundum fecit, quoniam hic Pater Domini nostri Iesu Christi, et quaecunque ex propheticis memorans Apostolus docuit praenunciantibus adventum Domini. / Marcion of Pontus succeeded him, and developed his doctrine. In so doing, he advanced the most daring blasphemy against Him who is proclaimed as God by the law and the prophets, declaring Him to be the author of evils, to take delight in war, to be infirm of purpose, and even to be contrary to Himself. But Jesus being derived from that father who is above the God that made the world, and coming into Judaea in the times of Pontius Pilate the governor, who was the procurator of Tiberius Caesar, was manifested in the form of a man to those who were in Judaea, abolishing the prophets and the law, and all the works of that God who made the world, whom also he calls Cosmocrator. Besides this, he mutilates the Gospel which is according to Luke, removing all that is written respecting the generation of the Lord, and setting aside a great deal of the teaching of the Lord, in which the Lord is recorded as most dearly confessing that the Maker of this universe is His Father. He likewise persuaded his disciples that he himself was more worthy of credit than are those apostles who have handed down the Gospel to us, furnishing them not with the Gospel, but merely a fragment of it. In like manner, too, he dismembered the Epistles of Paul, removing all that is said by the apostle respecting that God who made the world, to the effect that He is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and also those passages from the prophetical writings which the apostle quotes, in order to teach us that they announced beforehand the coming of the Lord.

Excerpt from Origen, On the Epistle to Titus, quoted by Pamphilus in his Apology for Origen: ...vel secundum eos qui Deum quidem eum fatentur, non tamen assumpsisse animam corpusque terrenum; qui sub specie quasi amplioris gloriae Iesu Domino deferendae, omnia quae ab eo gesta sunt, visa geri magis, quam vere gesta esse testantur: quique neque de virgine natum fatentur, sed triginta annorum virum eum apparuisse in Iudaea. / Or a heretic may agree with those who indeed confess that he is God, but not that he assumed humanity, that is, a soul and earthly body. These heretics, under the pretext of ascribing greater glory to Jesus the Lord, claim that all his actions seemed to have been done rather than were truly done. Moreover, they do not acknowledge that he was born of a virgin, but say that he appeared in Judea as a thirty-year-old man.

From British Museum Additional Manuscript 17215, folio 30 (Syriac): Our Lord was not born from a woman, but stole the domain of the Creator and came down and appeared for the first time between Jerusalem and Jericho, like a human being in form and image and likeness, but without our body. [English translation from Riemer Roukema, "The Good Samaritan in Ancient Christianity," Vigiliae Christianae 58.1. Link to description of manuscript in the official catalogue: https://books.google.com/books?id=--_e9 ... 22&f=false. Link to translation of entire fragment: viewtopic.php?p=80703#p80703.]

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:45 am

I also have been wondering about Secret Mark. The assumption is of course that Clement is describing a proto-Mark or neo-Mark native to Alexandria which resembled the ordering of canonical Mark. Under that scenario what is described as the 'naked with naked' pericope would be as Jesus marches toward Jerusalem at the end of the gospel. The 'naked with naked' scenario however is very Adamian and fits with what Epiphanius says about the sect and their nudity interest. The Carpocratians having orgies is also necessarily a 'nudist' interest. Epiphanius's Adamians also hint at a descent to Adam by Jesus between Jericho and Jerusalem.

But there is something else about Secret Mark that has always bothered me. If this is a secret baptism being described and Secret Mark takes the shape of canonical Mark then it is a second baptism. It is a second baptism around the location that the Gospel of John gives for Bethany by the Jordan. But why would Jesus have instituted a second baptism before the Passion narrative? Perhaps a substitution took place. But it is worth noting that if the Marcionites had a descent to this location between Jericho and Jerusalem we really have two likely options for what followed:

1. Jesus goes toward Jericho after rescuing Adam
2. Jesus goes toward Jerusalem after rescuing Adam

Both cities are mention so it is possible for a) Jesus went to Jericho and then Jerusalem b) Jesus went to Jerusalem and then Jericho. Now remembering for a moment that Secret Mark is a form of the gospel of Mark known outside of Alexandria (Clement says that). Papias argues that the order of 'Mark' is wrong. But canonical Mark and Matthew don't show any signs of significant contradiction. So either Papias isn't telling us the truth or an early version of Mark existed with a contradictory ordering.

Another anomaly in Clement's writings is that he identifies Zacchaeus as being the same person as Matthew/Levi the tax collector. Opening ourselves to the possibility that the last sequence in the synoptics (i.e. the section dealt with in the Letter to Theodore and beyond) might have appeared immediately following the descent at the beginning of the gospel rather than at the end, Jesus would have descended to rescue Adam at the border with Edom, then went to Bethany beyond the Jordan to baptize a disciple, then entered Jericho and was introduced to the tax collector Zacchaeus/Matthew/Levi.

The point is that Clement's gospel doesn't make apparent sense because we assume that he can't have had Zacchaeus/Matthew/Levi introduced twice. If Luke 5/Matthew 9/Mark 1 already appeared to introduce the tax collector he can't have thought that Zacchaeus = Matthew/Levi. Clearly then Luke 19 must have appeared at the beginning not at the end of a gospel.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:47 am

Thanks Ben. Just to make clear to the forum (I know Ben knows this). There are I believe three references in Clement to this idea that appears in the Stromata (or maybe it is only two):

Therefore Christ, who trains the soul, reckons one rich, not by his gifts, but by his choice. It is said, therefore, that Zaccheus, or, according to some, Matthew, the chief of the publicans.

Again, Jesus can't be unfamiliar to Zacchaeus/Matthew/Levi by chapter 19 of Luke if Zacchaeus = Matthew = Luke. An argument for Luke 19 to have originally been earlier in the gospel. And why is one character given three different names? Very puzzling.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:50 am

Another example of inversion of course is John having Jesus visit the temple at the beginning of the gospel along with the 'destroy .. the temple' exclamation. There are other examples of such an inversion.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:52 am

The cursing of the fig tree also makes more sense at the beginning. By leaving this to the end it changes the context from being a deliberate part of the mission of Jesus to something of a spoiled brat overturning the table because he can't win. In Clement's gospel (the gospel of the Egyptians) shutting down the womb of the world (fig = vagina) is definitely an explicit purpose in Jesus's mission. This is reinforced by the statement of Jesus to Salome (cf Tertullian's identification that this is to whom the declaration was made) that infertility is a blessing.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:48 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:47 am
Again, Jesus can't be unfamiliar to Zacchaeus/Matthew/Levi by chapter 19 of Luke if Zacchaeus = Matthew = Luke. An argument for Luke 19 to have originally been earlier in the gospel. And why is one character given three different names? Very puzzling.
I currently have a long text file full of notes on this very question (Matthias/Matthew, Levi/Lebbaeus [?], Zacchaeus). I am still trying to sort it all out.
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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:17 pm

Jerome
Banditry It is clear then, that there were major disturbances in Palestine in the Byzantine period. There is a good deal of evidence to suggest that between 300 and 600 there was constant tension with recurrent large- scale troubles between the various groups of the population, mostly on religious grounds; at least, that is the stated cause. It is impossible to verify whether other factors, besides religious issues, played a role. It is very likely, however, that while clashes between religious groups alone are mentioned in the sources, there was a good deal of enmity about which we know nothing, but which required occasional military intervention. A notoriously dangerous road led from Jerusalem to Jericho. Luke 10: 30: 'A man was on his way fromJerusalem down toJericho when he fell in with robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went off leaving him half dead.' The location is traditionally identified with Qala'at ed Damm-Macale Adumim. Jerome mentions highwaymen on the Jerusalem-Jericho road in his translation of Eusebius' Onomasticon of Biblical Place-names. 172 In the entry on 'Adommim', where Eusebius only mentions the presence of a garrison, Jerome adds comments in which he refers to the place-name (adumim is red in Hebrew). Jerome says the place is called red because of the blood shed by robbers, hence 'the fort with soldiers located there for the protection of travellers'.173 It might be argued that Jerome merely alludes to Luke's robbers and that there was, in his time, no problem of banditry there, but the fort is real and can still be seen. The Notitia records a 'cohors prima salutaria, inter Aeliam et Hierichunta'.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:25 pm

Quarries of Solomon (Solomon's Quarries or Royal Caves). A subterranean quarry which is supported on natural pillars goes 200 meters under the city of Jerusalem. This quarry supplied since the epoch of Solomon or before this period materials for construction. The entrance to the quarry is between Damascus Gate and Herod's Gate. The Arabs call the site Mogharet el Kittan (Grotto of the Cotton), because the caves served as a storeroom for powder. The site is known also as Zedekiah's Cave(s). A tradition has it that Zedekiah, the last king of Judah (597-587 BC) escaped from his royal palace through a tunnel to these caves, and from there in the direction of Jericho. Zedekiah was overtaken by the troops of King Nebuchadnezzar. His sons were executed in his presence, he himself was blinded and abducted in chains to Babylon. The site where Zedekiah was captured is on the way to Jericho, at Qalaat ed Damm (the Castle of Blood), where tradition afterwards located the Good Samaritan Inn. http://www.documenta-catholica.eu/d_Lis ... -%20EN.txt
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: The Marcionite Gospel Began at Adumim (= the place of those of Adam/the Red Ones)

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Where on earth does it preserve the claim that Zedekiah was captured at the same place as the Good Samaritan narrative? This requires an ability with Google that I evidently do not possess. There is this:

The Biblical name Maaleh Adommim (slope of the bloods) is related to the iron oxide with its red colour. An old legend places at Maaleh Adommim the capture of King Zedekiah by the Babylonians. (Compare Zedekiah's Cave).
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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