The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

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MrMacSon
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by MrMacSon »

John2 wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:59 am To me the idea that the mindset in the DSS which are dated to the first century BCE may have "flowed full-blown and almost without alteration into the main 'opposition' orientation of the first century CE" is similar to the idea that 'the mindset that opposed the 66-70 CE war carried over to the Bar Kokhba war 60 years later'.
I was also struck by the similarities or possible similarities between the lead up to the 1st Roman-Jewish War & the 2nd (aka the Bar Kokhba Revolt).

I am also struck between the portrayal of Rabbi Joshua as a pacifist and the portrayal of Jesus of Nazareth.
John2
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

MrMacSon wrote:
I was also struck by the similarities or possible similarities between the lead up to the 1st Roman-Jewish War & the 2nd (aka the Bar Kokhba Revolt).
Right. And just like the pro-peace mindset was continued by rabbis from the first century CE to the second century CE, I reckon so too was the pro-war mindset of the first century CE continued by non-rabbinic Jews (and like-minded rabbis like Akiba) into the second century CE (and similarly from the first century BCE to the first century CE).
I am also struck between the portrayal of Rabbi Joshua as a pacifist and the portrayal of Jesus of Nazareth.
I don't doubt that Jesus was relatively peaceful compared to other Fourth Philosophers, but to me his thing appears to have been just a different way of accomplishing the same thing other Fourth Philosophers were trying to do, i.e., to defeat Rome and bring on the End Time, which is something most Pharisees (including Josephus) were opposed to. Jesus was also opposed to the Pharisees' oral Torah, which in my view is also more in line with the Fourth Philosophy, since Josephus says that Fourth Philosophers had altered "the customs of our fathers," which is an expression that is commonly used to describe the oral Torah (including in the NT, e.g., Gal. 1:14 and Mk. 7:3).

One might ask how could Josephus then go on to say that "These men agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions"? Well, I reckon that the Pharisees' "notions" weren't necessarily the same as their "customs." For example, to me Jesus clearly opposed what Mk. 7:3 calls the Pharisees' "traditions of the elders," yet he also subscribed to the idea of the resurrection of the dead. This is why he castigates the Sadducees over this issue and not the Pharisees in Mk. 12:18-27, because the Pharisees believed in the resurrection too.
Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”
So while Jesus had altered the Pharisees' "traditions of the elders," at the same time he shared their belief (or notion) in the resurrection, like other Fourth Philosophers.
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

The more I learn about Jesus the more he seems pretty ballsy. His opposition to the Pharisees' oral Torah alone would be enough to get him killed in my view, since they considered it to be divine and Josephus says that it was the law of the land at the time (to such an extent that even the Sadducees had to go along with it). So engrained is the oral Torah in Judaism that even I got flak from my Reform rabbi back in the day when I became interested in Karaism. They didn't even see Karaites as being Jewish. And I recall a modern Karaite saying that he had received death threats from Orthodox Jews. Imagine what it was like when the Pharisees were in power during the first century CE. Most Israelis today seem at best dimly aware of Karaism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vDwQWRh7E

But Jesus also dared to say (in my view) that he was divine and that the high priest would see the coming of the Son of Man in Mk. 14:61-62:
"Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

So to a certain extent Jesus was peaceful, but his overall philosophy was nevertheless directed towards altering the present order and bringing on the End Time like other Fourth Philosophers.
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

Regarding the Fourth Philosophic mindset, Josephus says in War 6.5.4 that:
But now, what did the most elevate them in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how, about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth. The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination.
And he says in Ant. 18.1.1 that the Fourth Philosophy was a:
... system of philosophy which we were before unacquainted withal.
And 4Q175 is a collection of arguably messianic proof texts which includes the prophet like Moses and the Star Prophecy passages (both of which are applied to Jesus in Christian writings, and the latter was applied to Bar Kokhba and is the source of his nickname), so whoever created it was arguably interested in the idea that "one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth."

The Martinez translation of 4Q175 is viewable here on pages 137-138:

https://books.google.com/books?id=skIJ8 ... 75&f=false

And then there is 4Q174, which is viewable above on pages 136-137 and is dated by paleography to the Herodian era. It too cites messianic passages, both of which are also cited in Heb. 1:5 and Acts 15:16-17. In Martinez' translation (I leave out the brackets for the sake of convenience), it says:
And YHWH declares to you that he will build you a house. I will raise up your seed after you and establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to me. This refers to the branch of David who will arise with the Interpreter of the law who will rise up in Zion in the last days, as it is written, I will raise up the hut of David which has fallen. This refers to the hut of David which has fallen, who will arise to save Israel.
As Klawans, for example, notes:
The fragmentary document known as 4QFlorilegium [4Q174], preserved only in one copy, consists of a thematic collection of eschatological pesher-like commentaries on assorted biblical passages, notably verses taken from Nathan's prophecy concerning King David's dynasty and the king's desire to build a house for God (2 Sam. 7:10-14). The document is widely acknowledged to be sectarian in origin and generally dated to the Herodian period.

https://books.google.com/books?id=zJpwA ... an&f=false
So going by the educated guesses that 4Q175 is earlier than 4Q174, you can see the "flow" of messianic expectation into the Herodian era, and which then arguably led into the various factions of the Fourth Philosophy (which in my view includes Christianity).
Last edited by John2 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

Since I regard Acts as an attempt to smooth over the differences between Paul and Jewish Christians and (in the interest of favoring Paul) to ease the requirements for Gentile converts, I'm starting to wonder what Jewish Christian leaders "really" wanted Gentiles to do regarding Torah observance (though I'm also starting to wonder just how "lenient" the requirements set out in Acts 15 really are given James' statement in 15:21 that the Torah was available to Gentiles "in every city" and is "read in the synagogues on every Sabbath," which appears to suggest (or that it was assumed) that they were to observe the Sabbath (or at least attend synagogues on the Sabbath) and to learn about the Torah that way, but I need to give that some more thought.

Acts 15:19-21:
“It is my [James'] judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
In any event, when I think about what (else?) Jewish Christians expected Gentile converts to do, I think of the Didache. I've previously only focused on the Jewish Christian elements/roots of the Didache and its relationship to Matthew, and only the ban on eating food sacrificed to idols in 6:3 (which is in keeping with Acts 15) with respect to observances that were expected of Gentiles.

So while looking at the Didache in the light of it being a Jewish Christian-based document for Gentiles, immediately something else popped out to me that appears to be a possible element of the Pharisaic notions that Josephus says Fourth Philosophers agreed with in Ant. 18.1.6 (and which I see as being consequently applicable to Jewish Christians as well, like belief in the resurrection and given the presence of Pharisee Christians in Acts 15:5).

Did. 1:2:
Now the path of life is this -- first, thou shalt love the God who made thee, thy neighbour as thyself, and all things that thou wouldest not should be done unto thee, do not thou unto another.
The underlined part is exactly what Hillel says in Shab. 31a (and is one of his most famous sayings, if not the most), in the context of Gentile conversion:
There was another incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai and said to Shammai: Convert me on condition that you teach me the entire Torah while I am standing on one foot. Shammai pushed him away with the builder’s cubit in his hand. This was a common measuring stick and Shammai was a builder by trade. The same gentile came before Hillel. He converted him and said to him: That which is hateful to you do not do to another; that is the entire Torah, and the rest is its interpretation. Go study.

https://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.31a.8?l ... l&lang2=en
I wonder what else might be turn up (so far it looks like there is a lot that is based on Matthew and the OT). And a possible connection is commonly seem regarding the Two Ways doctrine in the Didache and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The closest parallels in the use of the Two Ways doctrine is found among the ... Jews at the Dead Sea Scrolls community. The Qumran community included a Two Ways teaching in its founding Charter, The Community Rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache
In any event, there appears to have been a lot more expected of Gentiles than just the four requirements mentioned in Acts 15, which the above Wikipedia page summarizes this way:
Throughout the Two Ways, there are many Old Testament quotes shared with the Gospels and many theological similarities, but Jesus is never mentioned by name. The first chapter opens with the Shema ("you shall love God"), the Great Commandment ("your neighbor as yourself"), and the Golden Rule in the negative form. Then comes short extracts in common with the Sermon on the Mount, together with a curious passage on giving and receiving, which is also cited with variations in Shepherd of Hermas (Mand., ii, 4–6). The Latin omits 1:3–6 and 2:1, and these sections have no parallel in Epistle of Barnabas; therefore, they may be a later addition, suggesting Hermas and the present text of the Didache may have used a common source, or one may have relied on the other. Chapter 2 contains the commandments against murder, adultery, corrupting boys, sexual promiscuity, theft, magic, sorcery, abortion, infanticide, coveting, perjury, false testimony, speaking evil, holding grudges, being double-minded, not acting as you speak, greed, avarice, hypocrisy, maliciousness, arrogance, plotting evil against neighbors, hate, narcissism and expansions on these generally, with references to the words of Jesus. Chapter 3 attempts to explain how one vice leads to another: anger to murder, concupiscence to adultery, and so forth. The whole chapter is excluded in Barnabas. A number of precepts are added in chapter 4, which ends: "This is the Way of Life." Verse 13 states you must not forsake the Lord's commandments, neither adding nor subtracting (see also Deut 4:2,12:32). The Way of Death (chapter 5) is a list of vices to be avoided. Chapter 6 exhorts to the keeping in the Way of this Teaching ...
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John2
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

Like Didache 6:1 ("See that no one causes you to err from this way of the Teaching, since apart from God it teaches you. For if you are able to bear the entire yoke of the Lord, you will be perfect; but if you are not able to do this, do what you are able"), Acts also calls Jewish Christianity "the way," which is one of the things that makes me think that the author of Acts really was aware of important sources about Christianity like it says in the Lukan prologue.

18:25-26:
This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spake and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, knowing only the baptism of John: and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more accurately.
19:9-10:
But when some were hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. And this continued for the space of two years; so that all they that dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks.
19:23:
And about that time there arose no small stir concerning the Way.
24:14-15:
But this I confess unto thee, that after the Way which they call a sect, so serve I the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the law, and which are written in the prophets; having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust.
As Bauckham notes about the concept of "the way" in The Dead Sea Scrolls as Background to Postbiblical Judaism:
Although the Qumran community and the early Christians were certainly not the only Jews to focus their hopes on the Isaianic picture of the way ... they are the only two groups we know to have applied the image of this way to their own way of life.

https://books.google.com/books?id=U7-Qe ... re&f=false
"The way" is mentioned (for example) in the opening column of the Damascus Document.
He [God] visited them, and He caused a root of planting to spring from Israel and Aaron to inherit His Land and to prosper on the good things of His earth. And they perceived their iniquity and recognized that they were guilty men, yet for twenty years they were like blind men groping for the way.

And God observed their deeds, that they sought Him with a whole heart, and He raised for them a Teacher of Righteousness to guide them in the way of His heart. And he made known to the latter generations that which God had done to the latter generation, the congregation of traitors, to those who departed from the way.
Last edited by John2 on Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

Regarding the dating of the Damascus Document, as Blanton notes in Constructing a New Covenant : Discursive Strategies in the Damascus Document and Second Corinthians:
From among the fragments of CD that were found in the Qumran caves, the latest copy was made during the "beginning of the second half of the first century CE" (c. 50 CE). The remaining eight copies of CD from which fragments were found at Qumran indicate that these copies were made during the span from the latter half of the first century BCE to the middle of the first century CE. The period of time during which these ten copies of CD were made corresponds well with the period ... from roughly 100 BCE to 68 CE, when the site was apparently burned by the Romans.

https://books.google.com/books?id=rdaTp ... 66&f=false
This illustrates perfectly the "flow" of ideas from the first century BCE into the first century CE that Eisenman talks about. Even though (at least parts of) the Damascus Document are pre-first century CE, it was copied (and edited, as the two Cairo manuscripts show) into the first century CE, which means that it could have been known to (and influenced) Jewish Christians, even if the Teacher of Righteousness isn't James (like 4QMMT, which is dated from 75 BCE to 50 CE).
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archibald
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by archibald »

MrMacSon wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:51 pm I am also struck between the portrayal of Rabbi Joshua as a pacifist and the portrayal of Jesus of Nazareth.
Although....we could say the same about Rabbi Hillel, who mostly preceded the 1st C CE (died 10 CE apparently), and whose teachings (apparently) Rabbi Joshua was continuing in the tradition of. If so, it would seem unlikely that Rabbi Joshua was the only rabbi to do that after Hillel, and a similar Hillelian rabbi or preacher in the 1st C seems plausible, so no need, on that account, to look to a 2nd C 'pacifist' for a 'Jesus-type-figure' I think.

Broadly-speaking, in any context of tension, there is usually a spectrum of relevant or affected or interested persons and groups, including moderates and extremists, to varying degrees.

Ditto for the similarities between the build-up to both wars (1st and 2nd C). It might be surprising if there weren't similarities.
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

The ten fragments of the Damascus Document that were found at Qumran are interesting, and I've only given them scant attention until now. The other two copies of the Damascus Document that were found in Egypt are post-70 CE and I'm more familiar with those.

After sorting through the content and dating of them, I noticed a curiosity and something that illustrates the flexible nature of the dating situation when it comes to the DSS.

As King notes regarding the dating of 4Q266 in Unveiling the Messiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls:
When they [VanderKam and Flint] tested 4Q266 ... they found a paleographic range of 100-50 BCE. The AMS [carbon dating] testing revealed a range of 4-82 CE. According to the Encyclopedia of the Dead Sea Scrolls, in which the paleographic testing of eight manuscripts (4Q266-4Q273) by j.T. Milik is given, we find different results. Milik agrees that on paleographic grounds, 4Q266 was written between 100-50 BCE in a Hasmonean style. However, 4Q267 to 4Q273 were written in Herodian styles ... the majority of the scroll versions of the Damascus Document can be dated to somewhere during the Herodian period and early part of the first century CE.

https://books.google.com/books?id=fZ9NA ... 66&f=false


Baumgarten, in The Dead Sea Scrolls (Volume 3): Damascus Document Fragments, Some Works of the Torah, and Related Documents, also notes that 4Q266 is dated by paleography to the Hasmonean era, "from the first half or middle of the first century BCE," but that the rest are dated up to the Herodian period.
4Q271 and 5Q12 are slightly younger, dating to the late Hasmonean or early Herodian period; Yardeni dates 4Q271 to c. 50-30 BCE. The other Qumran manuscripts date to the Herodian period. Yardeni dates 4Q267, 4Q269, and 4Q272 as early Herodian, c. 31-30 BCE. Yardeni dates 4Q268 and 4Q270 to the early first century CE. The orthography of most of these manuscripts tends to be mixed or fuller, and two of the manuscripts reflect other scribal practices of the Qumran community. The number of manuscripts copied over several generations indicates the continued importance of the Damascus Document at Qumran.

https://books.google.com/books?id=gUK6q ... ng&f=false
Out of curiosity, I wondered if any of these fragments mention the Teacher of Righteousness (like the two post-70 CE Cairo manuscripts do), and Stark notes them on page 68 of Sacred Texts and Paradigmatic Revolutions and they are: 4Q266 (= CD 1:1-2:1, 5:20-6:11, 20:27-34), 4Q267 (= CD 5:20-6:11, 20:27-34), 4Q268 (= CD 1:1-2:1), 4Q269 (= CD 5:20-6:11), 4Q270 (= CD 20:27-34), and 6Q15 (= CD 5:20-6:11).

https://books.google.com/books?id=ImljA ... ts&f=false

The Damascus Document appears to have been copied and edited by different scribes from maybe the Hasmonean period to sometime in the Herodian period (and possibly even after 70 CE in the case of the two Cairo manuscripts, which have some interesting differences). It has a lot of rules and regulations that could be as old the foundation of the sect and over time it was redacted and possibly updated.

And while one of the six copies of the Qumran Damascus Document that mentions the Teacher of Righteousness is dated by paleography as being from the Hasmonean era (4Q266), as Blanton notes (citing Hempel and echoing King above):
A portion of 4Q266 was subjected to Accelerator Mass Spectrometry, which yielded a date of 5-80 CE for the sheepskin on which 4Q266 was written.

https://books.google.com/books?id=rdaTp ... el&f=false
So an argument could be made that the Teacher of Righteousness lived during the Herodian era since every text we have that mentions him is dateable to that time (like the majority of the DSS: https://books.google.com/books?id=SBMXn ... ts&f=false) and after, and the differences between the paleographic dating and carbon dating in the case of 4Q266 illustrates the range of possibilities that exists when it comes to dating the DSS.
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lsayre
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Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by lsayre »

Does this dating imply that there is a possibility for the Teacher Of Righteousness to be Jesus?
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