In those first two passages (Ant 8.1.1 & 8.1.6) Josephus does not say that Judas the Gaulonite/Galilean had created or heeded any sort of oracle of a world ruler arising out of Judean soil.John2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:03 am DC wrote:
The 66-70 CE war was the culmination of the Fourth Philosophy which began in 6 CE. Josephus connects the beginning and the end of the Fourth Philosophy in Ant. 18.1.1 and 18.1.6:But War 6.5.4 was about the oracle, and how the people misinterpreted it, making no connection whatsoever with 4th philosophy movements.
Ant. 18.1.1:
Ant. 18.1.6:Yet was there one Judas, a Gaulonite, of a city whose name was Gamala, who, taking with him Sadduc, a Pharisee, became zealous to draw them to a revolt, who both said that this taxation [in 6 CE] was no better than an introduction to slavery, and exhorted the nation to assert their liberty; as if they could procure them happiness and security for what they possessed, and an assured enjoyment of a still greater good, which was that of the honor and glory they would thereby acquire for magnanimity. They also said that God would not otherwise be assisting to them, than upon their joining with one another in such councils as might be successful, and for their own advantage; and this especially, if they would set about great exploits, and not grow weary in executing the same; so men received what they said with pleasure, and this bold attempt proceeded to a great height. All sorts of misfortunes also sprang from these men, and the nation was infected with this doctrine to an incredible degree; one violent war came upon us after another, and we lost our friends which used to alleviate our pains; there were also very great robberies and murder of our principal men. This was done in pretense indeed for the public welfare, but in reality for the hopes of gain to themselves; whence arose seditions, and from them murders of men, which sometimes fell on those of their own people, (by the madness of these men towards one another, while their desire was that none of the adverse party might be left,) and sometimes on their enemies; a famine also coming upon us, reduced us to the last degree of despair, as did also the taking and demolishing of cities; nay, the sedition at last increased so high, that the very temple of God was burnt down by their enemies' fire. Such were the consequences of this, that the customs of our fathers were altered, and such a change was made, as added a mighty weight toward bringing all to destruction, which these men occasioned by their thus conspiring together; for Judas and Sadduc, who excited a fourth philosophic sect among us, and had a great many followers therein, filled our civil government with tumults at present, and laid the foundations of our future miseries, by this system of philosophy, which we were before unacquainted withal, concerning which I will discourse a little, and this the rather because the infection which spread thence among the younger sort, who were zealous for it, brought the public to destruction.
War 6.5.4:But of the fourth sect of Jewish philosophy, Judas the Galilean was the author. These men agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions; but they have an inviolable attachment to liberty, and say that God is to be their only Ruler and Lord. They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man lord. And since this immovable resolution of theirs is well known to a great many, I shall speak no further about that matter; nor am I afraid that any thing I have said of them should be disbelieved, but rather fear, that what I have said is beneath the resolution they show when they undergo pain. And it was in Gessius Florus's time [64 CE to 66 CE] that the nation began to grow mad with this distemper, who was our procurator, and who occasioned the Jews to go wild with it by the abuse of his authority, and to make them revolt from the Romans. And these are the sects of Jewish philosophy.
The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination. Now this oracle certainly denoted the government of Vespasian, who was appointed emperor in Judea. However, it is not possible for men to avoid fate, although they see it beforehand. But these men interpreted some of these signals according to their own pleasure, and some of them they utterly despised, until their madness was demonstrated, both by the taking of their city and their own destruction.
So Josephus connects the time (and philosophy) of Judas with the time (and philosophy) of Florus, and given the presence of messianic DSS texts that date to the Herodian era and just prior to it, I don't buy the idea that Jews were not expecting that "one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth" before 66 CE. How else do you suppose that Judas the Galilean and Sadduc expected (and taught others) that God would "be assisting to them"? Were Fourth Philosophers really unaware of (or uninspired by) the DSS (most of which date to the Herodian era) and non-messianic until 66 CE?
War 6.5.4 deals with those who supported specific rebel leaders because they thought it referred to a person from the Judean people, but were just plain wrong, as it turned out that Vespasian (& Titus) became the world ruler while conducting the war on Judean soil. However, I don't think we can be fully sure that what Josephus called "ambiguous oracles" is what we today might think Judean sacred writings could be construed to ambiguously predict.
Josephus claims the aristocrats knew that revolution was futile all along, and from the start tried to take control of the revolt to work out surrender to the Romans on terms. IMO, this was more likely their own rationalization after the fact, although for sure they had never been outright for revolt - for practical reasons related to maintaining positions of eminence, power and privilege.
DCH
