The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
John2
Posts: 4309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

As Joseph notes in The Nonviolent Messiah: Jesus, Q, and the Enochic Tradition regarding yolid in 1QSa and Psalms:
1QSa 11-12 refers to the time "when God begets the messiah." This idea seems to be derived from Ps. 2:7, where God declares "You are my son; today I have begotten you."

https://books.google.com/books?id=5YN-A ... ah&f=false
And Ps. 2:7, of course, is applied to Jesus in the Gospel of the Hebrews and Heb. 1:5.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
John2
Posts: 4309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

Another curious similarity between Christianity, the DSS and Rabbinic Judaism is the interest in heavenly ascents.

As Davila notes in his chapter "The Dead Sea Scrolls and Merkavah Mysticism" in The Dead Sea Scrolls in Their Historical Context, "a great deal of technical terminology [is] shared between the Hekhalot texts [of Rabbinic Judaism] and the Qumran literature," and on page 255 he writes:
In his two articles, Schiffman has relatively little to say about the idea of a mystical ascent to heaven in the Qumran literature ... There are such texts, however, and discussion of them has continued in the intervening years ... The most striking text of this category is the so-called Self-Glorification Hymn ... which boastfully describes the enthronement of the writer in heaven among the gods.

https://books.google.com/books?id=4UaaU ... ls&f=false


And De Conick writes in Seek to See Him: Ascent and Vision Mysticism in the Gospel of Thomas:
These Hekhalot traditions are generally attributed to Rabbi Akiba and Rabbi Ishmael who are said to have received them from their teachers, Rabbi Nehunya ben Ha-Qanah and Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanos of the first century CE. This chain of transmission may not be entirely pseudepigraphical, suggesting that some of the first century Rabbis were experimenting with mystical ascent ...

It is my contention that indeed the Merkavah mysticism of the Hekhalot materials finds its lineage in the Jewish apocalyptic traditions especially now that a relationship between Christianity, Jewish apocalypticism and Merkavah mysticism has been documented. As suggested by these recent studies on Christianity and Jewish mysticism, it seems that during the first century, mystical notions about ascent and gazing on God or his Glory had filtered into Christianity via developing Jewish apocalyptic and mystical circles. It is probable that is was filtering into Rabbanism simultaneously. Thus, it can plausibly be argued that Merkavah mysticism is steeped with early Jewish mystical and apocalyptic notions. For this reason, the rabbinic and Hekhalot texts are valuable to the study of Christianity's interface with early Jewish mysticism.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Ix5zY ... nt&f=false
And Smith argues in Heavenly Perspective: A Study of the Apostle Paul's Response to a Jewish Mystical Movement at Colossae:
... it is possible to conclude that Paul was associated with the concept of heavenly ascents in first-century Judaism. Indeed, G. Scholem has argued that Paul's rapture to paradise in 2 Corinthians 12 should be understood against the background of the Rabbinic story of the 'Four who entered Pardes'.

https://books.google.com/books?id=KeDeB ... ns&f=false
De Conick notes other examples of heavenly ascents in Christianity in Voices of the Mystics, such as the Apocryphon of James:
In the Apocryphon of James, James and Peter dialogue with Jesus. At the end of the dialogue, Peter and James ascend into heaven and receive a vision of angels hymning before the 'Majesty' (Ap. Jas. 15.5-30).

https://books.google.com/books?id=jjh1I ... en&f=false
So this tradition of heavenly ascents is in Rabbinic Judaism, Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls. And all three groups were messianic and believed in the resurrection of the dead. And Ben has been pointing out some interesting similarities between Paul, Revelation and rabbinic targums.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3874

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3883

It looks to me like the Fourth Philosophy (in which I include Jewish Christians) were radical Pharisees practicing a "new covenant" that rejected the oral Torah of the Pharisees (or altered "the customs of our fathers," as Josephus puts it in the case of the Fourth Philosophy) while agreeing with these other Pharisaic "notions." And while the DSS and Christianity mention a "new covenant," Josephus frequently calls Fourth Philosophers "innovators" and describes the Fourth Philosophy as a "system of philosophy, which we were before unacquainted withal," and one of the examples he gives of their "innovations" was the rejection of Gentile sacrifices, which is something that is also found in 4QMMT and Acts 15, as I've mentioned previously in this thread. And the Targum of Job was found at Qumran, which shows that targums were being made pre-70 CE, which could explain the correspondences that Ben has pointed out above.
Last edited by John2 on Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
John2
Posts: 4309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

And there are also Pharisee Christians mentioned in Acts 15:5-7, and they are presented as being influential enough to cause the leaders of the Jerusalem Church to meet over the issue of Gentile circumcision.
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them ...


And Paul too, of course, had been a Pharisee before he became a Christian. And he also mentions "false brothers" in Gal. 2:3-5 who, like the Pharisee Christians in Acts, insisted on Gentile circumcision.
Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.
And he goes on to present James as being a leader of "the circumcision group" in 2:12:
For before certain men came from James, he [Cephas] used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.
So James' position on Gentile circumcision in Galatians is in line with the "false brothers" in 2:4 and the Pharisee Christians and "certain people [who] came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved” in Acts 15 and Didache 6:3, while James and Peter are presented in Acts 15 as being in line with Paul's position, which I think exposes Acts' pro-Pauline agenda; either that or James and Peter must have changed their minds after the Antioch incident (if the council in Jerusalem happened after it), which seems improbable to me given James' position in James 2:10 that "whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."
Last edited by John2 on Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
John2
Posts: 4309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

As I mentioned previously, when I think about what Jewish Christians expected Gentiles Christians to do I think of the Didache, so I was curious to see what, if anything, it might say about circumcision, since I don't recall seeing anything about it before.

Finlan writes in The Didache: A Missing Piece of the Puzzle in Early Christianity, edited by Draper and Jefford, that:
Draper sees circumcision as recommended but not required. Gentiles are accepted "provided that they adopt the minimum of cultic purity" and follow the "Noachic" laws, but they are encouraged to take on "the whole yoke of the Lord," including circumcision. Circumcision is not mentioned one way or the other in the Didache.

https://books.google.com/books?id=KZbIC ... on&f=false
Sim echoes this in Matthew, James, and Didache:
It should be noted that the Didache nowhere indicates that non-Jewish males should undergo circumcision. It does, however, state that non-Jews are expected to observe the Torah, at least in part. According to Draper, the Jesus-believing Jews of the Didache community expected non-Jews eventually to become Jews and through this become "perfect" [Did. 6:2]. This is, of course, a possible scenario, but not the only one. It is perhaps even more plausible that Did. 6:2 provides a hint of how some Jewish communities may have related to non-Jews in general, because one reason for non-Jewish involvement in the Torah, seems to have been that Jews actually encouraged non-Jews to engage in Torah observance.

https://books.google.com/books?id=CkRmO ... on&f=false


And here is Didache 6:2:
If thou art able to bear the whole yoke of the Lord, thou wilt be perfect; but if thou art not able, what thou art able, that do.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
User avatar
Ben C. Smith
Posts: 8994
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by Ben C. Smith »

John2 wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:31 pmAnd here is Didache 6:2:
If thou art able to bear the whole yoke of the Lord, thou wilt be perfect; but if thou art not able, what thou art able, that do.
The Didache is pretty chill like that. Elsewhere it says to baptize in running water, but if you cannot find running water you can do it in still water, and if you have trouble finding still water you can just sprinkle. Just do whatever you can, man.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ
John2
Posts: 4309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

But ideally you should observe the whole Torah, is my take.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
User avatar
Ben C. Smith
Posts: 8994
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by Ben C. Smith »

John2 wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:36 pm But ideally you should observe the whole Torah, is my take.
Agreed.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ
John2
Posts: 4309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

Another similarity between the Fourth Philosophy and Christianity is a willingness to endure torture.

Ant. 18.1.6:
They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man lord. And since this immovable resolution of theirs is well known to a great many, I shall speak no further about that matter; nor am I afraid that any thing I have said of them should be disbelieved, but rather fear, that what I have said is beneath the resolution they show when they undergo pain.
James 5:6:
You have condemned and put to death the righteous man; he does not resist you.
Hegesippus EH 3.32:
... Symeon, son of Clopas, an uncle of the Lord, was informed against by the heretics, and was himself in like manner accused for the same cause before the governor Atticus. And after being tortured for many days he suffered martyrdom, and all, including even the proconsul, marveled that, at the age of one hundred and twenty years, he could endure so much. And orders were given that he should be crucified.


Ignatius Rom. 4:
I write to the Churches, and impress on them all, that I shall willingly die for God, unless you hinder me. I beseech of you not to show an unseasonable good-will towards me. Allow me to become food for the wild beasts, through whose instrumentality it will be granted me to attain to God. I am the wheat of God, and let me be ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ. Rather entice the wild beasts, that they may become my tomb, and may leave nothing of my body; so that when I have fallen asleep [in death], I may be no trouble to any one. Then shall I truly be a disciple of Christ, when the world shall not see so much as my body. Entreat Christ for me, that by these instruments I may be found a sacrifice [to God].
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
User avatar
Ben C. Smith
Posts: 8994
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by Ben C. Smith »

John2 wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:08 pm Another similarity between the Fourth Philosophy and Christianity is a willingness to endure torture.

Ant. 18.1.6:
They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man lord. And since this immovable resolution of theirs is well known to a great many, I shall speak no further about that matter; nor am I afraid that any thing I have said of them should be disbelieved, but rather fear, that what I have said is beneath the resolution they show when they undergo pain.
James 5:6:
You have condemned and put to death the righteous man; he does not resist you.
This trait is also predicated of "Galileans" and Christians: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3855.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ
John2
Posts: 4309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity

Post by John2 »

This trait is also predicated of "Galileans" and Christians: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3855.
Oh, I see. I had read that thread before Isayre commented about Judas. Thanks.
You know in spite of all you gained, you still have to stand out in the pouring rain.
Post Reply