Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

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Giuseppe
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Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:56 am

Moreover, since the devil and his companions wander in the "lower atmosphere" it's right that the Lord should die in the air, that is, on the cross, so to rid the air of demons, and so he provides free access to the souls rising to the heaven
.

https://books.google.it/books?id=SGOpA_ ... ir&f=false


Ladies and gentlemen, the end is came for the god-man!
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:05 pm


So much for the objections of those outside the Church. But if any honest Christian wants to know why He suffered death on the cross and not in some other way, we answer thus: in no other way was it expedient for us, indeed the Lord offered for our sakes the one death that was supremely good. He had come to bear the curse that lay on us; and how could He "become a curse" (Gal. 3. 13) otherwise than by accepting the accursed death? And that death is the cross, for it is written "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree." ( Gal. 3. 13. ) Again, the death of the Lord is the ransom of all, and by it "the middle wall of partition" ( Eph. 2. 14 ) is broken down and the call of the Gentiles comes about. How could He have called us if He had not been crucified, for it is only on the cross that a man dies with arms outstretched? Here, again, we see the fitness of His death and of those outstretched arms: it was that He might draw His ancient people with the one and the Gentiles with the other, and join both together in Himself. Even so, He foretold the manner of His redeeming death, " I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Myself." ( John 7. 32) Again, the air is the sphere of the devil, the enemy of our race who, having fallen from heaven, endeavours with the other evil spirits who shared in his disobedience both to keep souls from the truth and to hinder the progress of those who are trying to follow it. The apostle refers to this when he says, "According to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience." ( Eph. 2. 2 ) But the Lord came to overthrow the devil and to purify the air and to make "a way" for us up to heaven, as the apostle says, "through the veil, that is to say, His flesh."( Heb. 10. 20 ) This had to be done through death, and by what other kind of death could it be done, save by a death in the air, that is, on the cross? Here, again, you see how right and natural it was that the Lord should suffer thus; for being thus "lifted up," He cleansed the air from all the evil influences of the enemy. "I beheld Satan as lightning falling," ( Luke 10. 18) He says; and thus He re-opened the road to heaven, saying again, "Lift up your gates, 0 ye princes, and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors." ( Psalm 24. 7) For it was not the Word Himself Who needed an opening of the gates, He being Lord of all, nor was any of His works closed to their Maker. No, it was we who needed it, we whom He Himself upbore in His own body - that body which He first offered to death on behalf of all, and then made through it a path to heaven
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/a ... tion.4.htm

Tombola!
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:21 pm

So it's explained this passage:
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord
(Romans 8:38-39)

Jesus had to die in the air so to make to pass the souls beyond the air, destination: the "love of God" or the upper heaven.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Ben C. Smith » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:23 pm

Jesus Crucified.jpg
Jesus Crucified.jpg (233.92 KiB) Viewed 142 times
GDon has been talking about this sort of thing for years now.

Athanasius even included a quotation from John 7.32 ("if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto myself") to make sure you knew what he meant.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:29 pm

The good thing about the outer space Jesus is that it came to be reduced to mere allegory by the time Athanasius wrote.

The same process by which Origen could even know the real allegorical meaning of gMark and still be an obtuse historicist.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:34 pm

Where did GDon talk about Athanasius? I am curious...
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Ben C. Smith » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:42 pm

Giuseppe wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:34 pm
Where did GDon talk about Athanasius? I am curious...
Not about Athanasius: about the structure of how the ancients perceived their world (the earth, the air, the firmament, land and sea and sky, and so on).

You hear "in the air" and you seem to automatically think of some parallel universe hanging in orbit somewhere in our atmosphere; but most of us just imagine the swath of vapory stuff that swaddles the land, the stuff we stand up in and breathe all the time.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Giuseppe » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:18 am

Athanasius comes very close to reveal the origin of the crucifixion myth: Jesus has to be crucified to conquer the demons of the air. Note how he interprets the same Psalm 24:7 to that goal.

It can't be a coincidence that the best mythicist thesis fits so perfectly with the Athanasius words. But I don't think that Doherty or Carrier know that passage of Athanasius. As I don't think Athanasius heard about mythicist sects.

So the best possible explanation is that various people in different times, independently the one from other, can arrive to the same identical conclusion: the pauline Jesus was crucified "in the air".
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Kapyong
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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Kapyong » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:22 pm

Gday Giuseppe :)
Giuseppe wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:18 am
So the best possible explanation is that various people in different times, independently the one from other, can arrive to the same identical conclusion: the pauline Jesus was crucified "in the air".
Yes, but his words make it clear he means it like Ben C. Smith's picture,
not like a mythicist or AoI-like 'in the air'.

Kapyong

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Re: Athanasius: it's right that the Lord should die in the air

Post by Bernard Muller » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:27 pm

AoI-like 'in the air'
However AoI does not say Jesus was crucified in the air.

Cordially, Bernard
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