If only the crucifixion of Jesus was earthly...

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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If only the crucifixion of Jesus was earthly...

Post by Giuseppe » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:52 am

What should I conclude if the crucifixion of Jesus, as many people here in this forum insist spasmodically, was earthly?

Surely I would follow Dujardin in considering the crucifixion an old ritual.


Only, now I learn that it was a Roman ritual:

Crucifiction? The Reimagination of Crucifixion as Failed Imperial Ritual in Philippians 2:5–11

Peter-Ben Smit
Abstract
In this paper the famous “hymn” in Philippians 2:5–11 is considered from the perspective of the study of ritual failure. It is argued that the crucifixion of Jesus, as it is mentioned in this text, can well be considered as a ritual that, on the one hand, fails, given that it leads to Jesus' exaltation rather than to his permanent death, while it is at the same time reinterpreted as a consequence of Jesus' obedience rather than of his disobedience, as one would expect. Using the body of theory as it has been developed concerning ritual and its failure, it is shown how this reinterpretation of a ritual is more than “just” about ritual, but serves to carve out a space for early Christianity and its self-understanding in the web of power relationships that made up Greco-Roman society
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10. ... 7915623196

So I wonder: was there really a clash of views about the crucifixion ritual? Some Jews saw the crucifixion as a sacred ritual and in whiletime the same crucifixion was seen independently as a Roman ritual. When the two rituals merged in only one, the man on the cross was seen at once as both the man possessed by the Son of God and another mere victim of the Roman empire. The same ritual was considered winner and loser in the same time.

Unfortunately, we see only in the (pre-christian?) Odes of Solomon the evidence of a ritual of crucifixion. But not in Paul.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Secret Alias
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Re: If only the crucifixion of Jesus was earthly...

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:12 am

Some Jews saw the crucifixion as a sacred ritual
We should keep a file for "the stupid things Giuseppe says"
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Giuseppe
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Vicenza (Italy)

Re: If only the crucifixion of Jesus was earthly...

Post by Giuseppe » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:15 am

Some scholars have argued that the Barabbas episode is a trace of an old Jewish crucifixion ritual (where the victim was released).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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