How late might the gospels be?

[archibald]

So do you accept that the imagery used by Mark drawn from known metaphors in the OT or not?

I see Daniel as suggesting that a 'him' would come to Judea.

[neilgodfrey]

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[neilgodfrey]

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[neilgodfrey]

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[archibald]

?????? The fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple was not a pretty big event??????

The destruction of the Jewish power and polity of Moses leaving "the people of the new temple" as "THE Temple" etc ... was not a pretty big event?

I already commented on that. You are trying to get the destruction of the temple to be both the tribulation and the 'coming of the son of man' after.

Plus, you have a switch from a literal destruction to a non-literal 'coming', in the middle of a passage.

Plus we have early christians apparently expecting a big event.

[archibald]

How about reading some serious scholarly studies on Daniel and his imagery.

Well, I did ask you about that, and you said something about Daniel's son of man being a Maccabean representative.

[neilgodfrey]

I was refering to Hermann Detering's argument that this is about Emperor Hadrian trying to place a statue of Jupiter in the (ruined) Temple, which sparked the Bar Kokhba revolt of 132-135 AD.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080227161 ... %20JHC.pdf

I am familiar. Thanks. Are you aware of the tentative nature of the evidence for that eventuality (for Hadrian trying to place a statue on the Temple Mount)?

I know the historical evidence is slight, but what do we know of the rumours floating around about the time of the war? How does the interpretation compare with what we "know" from Josephus?

In what scenario do the "many false christs" best fit?

I like the idea of Mark being composed in direct response to the events of 70 CE (the biggest tell-tale sign to me is the heavy focus on crucifixion and not only for Jesus, and the metaphorical suggestiveness of the tomb carved out of a rock vis a vis Isaiah 22:16) -- but details in Mark 13 and even some of the anachronisms do leave me with unanswered questions.

Then again -- can we be really sure, certain, no doubts, that some of these questions, including details in Mark 13, would be resolved if we could see "the original gospel" before it came to look like what we read today?

[archibald]

I think you are mixing up symbolic and metaphorical. Things in prophecies can be the first without being the latter. So it is with the temple destruction, and the mountains and the houses and clouds.

[neilgodfrey]

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[neilgodfrey]

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