Ben,
Yet nobody actually gives any examples of calculations that would put the final eschatological era in the times of Pilate or any Roman for that matter. I am quite sure that Josephus came up with the idea that the end of the ages was in Vespasian's day, but I am dubious that Jews were making a big deal about that era. In fact, the rebel movements that seemed to have flourished do not seem to be messianic in focus, but more concerned to (re)establish a fully independent Judean state.
The rebels were not so much concerned with what the Romans thought, although there were certainly Hellenized Judeans of the Diaspora who were writing Sibylline verses propounding how stability and justice would come to the inhabited world not by Roman leaders but by a Judean or Judeans. There were certainly peoples governed by the Romans who would have welcomed a change in rulership.
But did he actually argue to John of Gischala that the predicted world rulers were going to be Vespasian & Titus, as he claims? He conveniently speaks in Hebrew, so few if any among the Roman hearers will be transcribing it, even if some of the soldiers knew Aramaic. They even now need translators so the unified Korean ice skating team can communicate together, as modern Korean as spoken in South Korea is no longer the same as the older form still spoken in N. Korea. So I think this was what he came up with. He may be correct that John of Gischala did not put a lot of credence in interpretations that put the final age in his own time. Another indication that John was NOT an apocalyptist. Josephus hints that he actually proposed some passages from scripture speaking of the rewards of just conduct and the pitfalls of bad motivations, not specific 'seasons."
There is a site where a gentleman posted what he felt was a complete list of passages in Josephus and early Church fathers that spoke about "Christ" and the 70 weeks of Daniel.
https://www.christianforums.com/threads ... s.7861752/
He does not post the text of a very long chapter in
Demonstratio Evangelica book 8 chapter 2 (the translation, by W W Ferrar, in 2 volumes, is available at archive.org). However, it shows how far Christian writers were willing to go to make the 70 weeks predict, not Vespasian and Titus, but Jesus Christ.
Eusebius says: "(390) It was then that King Artaxerxes gave the order for it to be built. And Nehemiah was sent to take charge of the work, and the street and wall were built, as it had been prophesied. And from that date to the coming of Christ is seventy weeks. For if we begin to count from any other point but this, not only the dates will not agree, but many absurdities arise."
When you want something bad enough, you make the facts fit the preconceived notion. No wonder John thought that predictions of exact times & seasons, if that was really what Josephus offered him, was akin to "jugglery."
By way of challenge, can we find any distinctly Judean or Jewish interpretations clearly stated? The closest I can think of is the Apocalypse of Weeks in the book of 1 Enoch, but I do not think they had anything to do with Daniel, although history was spread out in ten "weeks" (later edited into seven weeks) that took things to Maccabean time, IIRC.
"Astronauts have returned from the moon carrying moon-rocks. Analysis shows them to be if igneous origin." Hence, this *proves* that the moon is made of Green Cheese (not Blue or cream Cheese, but Green). Elsewise, why would the cow have jumped over it? Of course this makes no sense, but it is just an illustration how Romans and Christians could spend far more time laboring over such things than did Judeans, and came up with the answers that suited them.
DCH (off sick today, <barf>
, must be them hamburgers - oh wait, that is another thread ...)
